Derminator



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Messages - SarahVaughter

1936
After popular request, we added to our assortment the 1.5 mm narrow roller with only three lines of needles, to deep-treat the skin above the upper lip or any other narrow skin area that you'd like to target, such as individual stretchmarks.

With this roller you can make narrower bands of pricks, and it is easier to make the needles penetrate.

The roller by itself is here:

1.5 mm NARROW dermaroller


1937
Dermarolling / Microneedling / chemical sunscreens and dermarolling?
« on: February 12, 2010, 03:20:46 AM »
You should stay out of the sun as much as you can after dermarolling with long needles. You can go outside but you must protect yourself.

If you can't avoid staying out of the sun at least one, two days every 4 weeks, then you can't use any skin restoration techniques. Abrasive Laser treatment requires sun avoidance, dermabrasion and chemical peeling also requires staying out of the sun and if you want to avoid rapid skin aging, you should generally avoid the sun - sunscreen or no sunscreen. I'm not saying you should not get any natural vit. D, but longer period of direct bright sunlight is really bad for even untreated skin .  At least two days of sun avoidance is necessary not to do damage during the healing process and to prevent hyperpigmentation. Use a hat and a high-factor sunscreen when you're going shopping in bright sunlight. Don't go to the beach. Cover the skin with clothing.

As to your second question: Yes you can.

1938
This should be obvious (because criminally negligent if it wouldn't be):


  • Our rollers and their plastic boxes are gamma-radiation sterilized and come in a hermetically sealed bag, inside a cardboard box. The rollers are manufactured in compliance with ISO13485, the requirements standard for the design and manufacture of medical devices.


  • Our single needles are also gamma-sterilized, individually packed and hermetically sealed and come with an expiry date.


1939
>Can rolling reduce the likelihood of getting any further stretchmarks in

>the future ie in pregnanay or is it a case of once you get stretchmarks no
 

>matter what you are prone to getting more?
 





    The exact underlying cause of stretchmarks is not fully known. Most pregnant women get them but some don't and nobody seems to know why. There likely is a strong hormonal factor.

     The preventative effect of a dermaroller in stretchmark formation has not yet been studied, AFAIK.

          You can try supplying vit. C to your skin and dry massage it and use skin creams that you think might be useful (I cannot comment on the efficacy of any creams) but nothing is known to be able to guarantee a stretchmark-free pregnancy. There currently is no known method to prevent stretchmarks formation in pregnancy.

You might want to read this article:

Predicting stretch marks
 

  A researcher from the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto says he has found a way to predict years in advance whether a woman will develop stretch marks after giving birth, and is working on promising "pre-emptive" remedies for the unsightly wrinkles.”

  http://www.canada.com/topics/lifestyle/parenting/story.html?id=a8e334c0-d31f-4ecb-9fcd-bf078fe16058&k=25615

 



 




1940
>With repeated rolling and the production of new collagen,can the skin  

  >ever return to its pre-stretchmark stage in terms of having just as

  >much  collagen as it once did?

The "stretchmarked" skin is usually thinned both in the Epidermis and the Dermis (skin layers).

 

  Regular dermarolling should thicken the skin and make the stretchmarks less indented.

      Stretchmarks usually have abundant collagen in them but that Collagen is in the form of a scar - the Collagen layout is different from that in normal skin and the Elastin fibers are abnormal as well.

        Pricking the stretchmarks densely with a single needle will crush the hardened Collagen bundles and that should smoothe the texture of the stretchmarks and make them less bright and shiny.  But the white scar will not disappear.

     

            Nevertheless, if you are lucky, then the repeated micro injuries caused by pricking the skin can cause the stretchmarks to heal with a better collagen layout, a fiber configuration that is a little more normal-skin-like. It might also trigger Melanocyte production and that will enable the stretchmarks to tan or partially tan. All this is highly individual - no guarantees.



          If your stretchmarks are very shallow (unfortunately, they are often deep), they might even disappear entirely but so far, no method can totally remove deep stretch marks - only improve them.

1941
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Why don't you sell a 3 mm roller?
« on: February 08, 2010, 07:29:03 AM »
We don't sell longer needle lengths than 1.5 mm because they carry a risk of infection or nerve injury, especially if larger areas are rolled. And if even one needle is bent, serious skin damage and perhaps scarring will result. Bent needles are a significant risk with such long needles.



Our opinion is that 3 mm deep rolling should be only done by medical professionals.

 

  The necessity of rolling so deeply (with the exception of certain scars) is controversial as well.


1942
>I have very deep white stretch marks which are quite wide in width and

      >cause me distress.Can the derma roller work to getting the marks back to

  >normal skin colour or do they only help with the skin texture and >tightness?

    Stretchmarks are deep furrows in the skin and unfortunately there is currently no method to make them completely disappear. If I promised you that your stretchmarks would disappear with our dermarolling products, it would be a lie.

   

  You can achieve a big improvement in the appearance of the stretchmarks with dermarolling combined with single-needling provided you have lots of patience and perseverance. It is a long-term project.

   Repeated needling of your stretchmarks should eventually make your stretchmarks a bit shallower, narrower and the skin color will improve and blend more with the surrounding skin. Nevertheless, stretchmarks are scars and the color of the scar will always be different from the normal skin.

   Needling can also trigger Melanocyte production (if you are lucky).

  Stretchmarks usually have no melanocytes and that's why they do not tan. You should single-needle your stretchmarks repeatedly (once in 4-5 weeks) and then expose your stretchmarks to the sun and hopefully they will tan a bit. Not everybody had Melanocyte production and not everybody achieved a strong improvement with single-needling but many of our customers did.

       

  Needling is done by our single needle that we specifically designed for this purpose, It is very thin (0.25 mm) with a long taper but strong enough to repeatedly prick the skin without it getting blunt or bent.

  Eventually it will get blunt of course and you have to replace it.

 You use the single needle in combination with a dermaroller, as explained in our instructions.

   > because i have triedthe derma roller on and off and i notice my skin

  > isnt as wrinkled however the white lines are still there? Any reccomendations?

 

You should try to densely prick your stretchmarks with our singe needle which is a part of our dermarolling kit. Its laborious but it is worth it. You can prick several stretchmarks every day. Once you get the hang of it you can do it quite quickly.  

  It is explained in our instructions how to do it:

  http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

 

  That method should be only used on the stretchmarks themselves, not on the surrounding skin.

 

  When the needling has healed you can expose your stretchmarks to the sun and they might tan.

But first they should be repeatedly pricked (once a month per stretchmark) for several months.


1943
>Also, I used the Infadolan ointment last evening.  How

  >often do I use it, and where does the Vit. C Serum fit in, especially when

    >I use my regular face and eye creams?



            Vit. C applied externally will slowly decay in your skin over the course of at least 70 hours so you do not have to apply vit. C serum every day. Use vit. C serum on the day of rolling, before you roll to ensure a high concentration of vit. C in your skin.

    Do not use vit. C just after rolling or even a couple of days after rolling if you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm. Wait for 3 days.

       

    If you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm, apply a very small amount of Infadolan every day for several days after rolling, at least once a day.

       

            You can use your regular skin creams but if you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm, do not use anything that can be bacterialy contaminated for several days after rolling, such as a jar of cream that you frequently put your fingers in. Infadolan comes in a tube so it can't easily get seriously contaminated.

1944
> I also have the 1.0mm roller and the 0.5 Narrow roller, but I'm still

  > confused as to how to use the 3 different sizes. Can

    > they ALL be incorporated in my routine, for example: Can I still use

      > the 0.5 Narrow once a week, then the 1.0 every 3 weeks, and then the 1.5?

 

    Yes you can, provided you are not using them on the same skin that you have rolled before, according to the minimum interval times (needle-length-dependent) described in our instructions.

      The same skin should not be rolled more than once in three weeks with 1.5 mm and no roller except for product absorption should be used on that skin in the meantime. You can use a 0.25 mm for skin product absorption.

       

  You can use all your roller sizes at the same time but they have to be used on different skin areas.

   

      You can roll around your eyes with 0.5 narrow and at the same time roll the back of your hands with 1.0 mm and at the same time your thigh with 1.5 mm for example.

      Nevertheless, if you roll an extensive area with 1.5 mm, I would recommend you to wait until it heals before you roll another extensive area so that you do not put too much strain on the body in one go. Skin regeneration requires a substantial supply of vitamins, an immune response etc.

    Needling with long needles causes micro-injuries and there is a risk of infection.

   

  That's why it is better to do one part at a time, wait until it heals and then do another part.

>P.S. Can the 1.5 mm for my thighs be used more often than every 5 weeks?

       

 If you roll densely and vigorously I would not roll more often than once in 3-4 weeks with the 1.5 mm. Collagen production is a very slow process. You should wait until the first stages of collagen production are completed and then roll again. Otherwise you risk making matters worse instead of better.

1945
> And, I have a couple of questions:  May I use a liquid make-up with

  > titanium oxide 2-3 days after rolling, or would I risk absorbing

  > titanium.

 

    If you roll with 1.5 mm and do this quite vigorously then I would recommend

you to roll on Friday evening and put makeup on Monday morning for work.

This to avoid interfering with the healing process, not because the Titanium oxide is a threat.

Metallic Titanium might be risky in/on open skin, hence our article with reference to a study that

shows such risk, and our recommendation not to use dermarollers with (alleged..) Titanium needles.

However, Titanium oxide has been proven to be totally inert and harmless.

 

    >Next question: How long after I "single needle" a test scar will I know

>if I am healing in the correct manner, or am having abnormal healing?

 

  When the redness is gone and the skin look healed then you basically know

  you heal well. I cannot tell you exactly how many days the healing process

  takes because it depends how deep and dense you go with the needle.

  Anything between two and ten days.

 

  Abnormal healing is a very rare condition when even a minor injury heals in

  the form of hyperthropic scar or a keloid scar.

 

  While most people never form keloids, others develop them after minor

  injuries, even insect bites or pimples.  That condition is very rare and if

  you have it you would likely already be aware of it.

1946
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Infadolan experience thread
« on: February 07, 2010, 10:43:28 AM »
We started to receive some positive feedback on our "special" vitamin A & D ointment Infadolan. (Read about Infadolan's ingredients in our web store). I tried to find another one that mentioned how there was absolutely no irritation but instead a cool, soothing feeling, but I couldn't find it in my inbox any more.

   Hi Sarah,

 

  I received my Dermaroller in January and have used it once.  I'm looking forward to seeing results, with continued use and time.

 

  I had to write to you today, to share a big *WOW* about something unexpected - the Infadolan cream. After just one use, I noticed that my undereye lines and creases were markedly improved.  

 

  I'm in my early 40s with fair and very dry skin.  I think my skin is in good condition overall.  (Eye lines and crosshatched skin when smiling are the only trouble spots.)  I've never found a product that works half as well as the Infadolan. Now I used it at night on a regular basis and each morning I awaken to smooth, youthful skin in the undereye area.

 

  Thank you so much for this unexpected discovery.

 

  PS - I'm very happy with the Dermaroller, too.  :)

   That's great to hear!

  You should benefit from the vit. A at the very least.

  Do you run into issues with greasiness?





    >It is greasy, but I don't use much and I only apply it at night, so it is not a problem.  And when I weigh the greasiness against the positive effects, it is so worth using!!  

>In the states, emu oil is all the rage.  I tried it last year and it was at least as oil as the Infadolan.  Emu didn't seem to sink into my skin, though, and I didn't notice

>any improvement from it.

>I hadn't expected the Infadolan to make any visible difference.  I checked some of the skincare forums on the web (which is how I found you) and none of them had any comments

>like what I have experienced.  

>I'm going to have my mom use it next.  : )

>Thanks again from a very grateful customer.

H.B. from the UK emailed us this on March 11, 2010:

>p.s.

   >I was very impressed with the infadolan ointment, and your sensible consiseration of an alchohol/irritant/paraben free ointment.

>I previously had dermaroller treatment from a professional who gave me Chiroxy cream to apply afterwards.

>This left my skin dry/irritated and peeling.  The infadolan is soothing and I had no peeling at all after my second dermaroll.

1947
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Microneedling and poly-L-lactic acid?
« on: February 06, 2010, 05:22:54 AM »
(OP banned for repeated spamming for Sculptra)

Sculptra is a "filler" totally foreign to the body, it is made of a synthetic polymer of Lactic Acid. Even when an expert injects it under the skin, serious side effects can and do occur, as you can read below.

If you were to "roll in" Sculptra with a roller, you might end up with very serious skin problems because the Sculptra, being a "foreign element" will likely interfere with the skin regeneration process. It is my assumption that the skin bumps mentioned below are an immune reaction. This makes me suspect that were you to roll in this substance, that the result could be a massive skin inflammation that can cause permanent scarring:

   

  Patient's question:

   

  “Some 5 years ago I had NewFill (Sculptra) for smile lines and hyaluronic for my lip line. Some 2 months after, I started to get hard painful lumps, which I have been told are granulomas. I went back to the person who did the injections and he gave me 3 steroid injections. They broke the lumps down but seem to be more little ones and they seem to be worse again, almost like they're growing as I can notice them under the skin. Can I get IPL or heat treatment Thermage to break them down? If I have steroid injections, what strength do I have and how many can have?”

 

    Reply By Arnold W. Klein, MD - Beverly Hills Dermatologist:

“What you describe indeed sounds like a foreign body granuloma, which can occur at any time following the injection of synthetic or non-biologic agents. I am not a proponent of synthetic agents such as Sculptra, Artefill, Radiesse or silicone for this very reason.

In the medical literature, there are many reports of delayed foreign body granulomas; in one report with PMMA (Artefill/Artecoll, which is Plexiglas!), up to 12 or 13 years following the injections!  The reasons this can occur is that you are injecting something foreign into your body and the human body has a very sophisticated immune response. When it sees something as a foreign invaider, it creates a complex reaction to try to get rid of it, and the result is the granuloma which you describe.

The reason it seems to keep coming back is that as long as the foreign agent is present, the body can continue to cause the reaction in which it tries to wall off or encase the foreign body. These are the lumps you feel and or see.

Injectable steroids can help minimize this, but as you note, often you must continue to inject the steriods which can cause problems of its own. Some people seem to have success with this while others do not. Unfortunately, the only way to eliminate this immune reaction is to remove the reactive agent, something that is very difficult to impossible to do with Sculptra, Artefill, Radiesse, and silicone.”
       

So, do not use this substance in combination with a dermaroller - you can't expect to roll in a synthetic polymer into your skin and get away with it - the effects could be disastrous - plastic surgery and skin grafts required to remove the scarring! Please note that people's immune systems are genetically determined and what gives no reaction to person A can be very bad for person B. So it would be a risky experiment to try this on yourself, even when you know someone who successfully did it. Unless lots of data becomes available, I would not try this.

From the company that markets this chemical cocktail:

"SculptraT contains particles of PLA, which is a synthetic polymer of the alpha-hydroxy-acid family. Particles are 40-63mm in size and have a molecular weight of 140,000 Daltons. PLA is suspended in sodium carboxymethylcellulose and mannitol."

So this "natural Lactic Acid" is in fact artificial, a plastic with a gigantic polymerized molecule. On top of that, you would be rolling Cellulose and artificial sweetener (Mannitol) into your skin..

1948
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Lanolin allergy myth
« on: February 05, 2010, 05:31:54 PM »
Hi lenamom,



Allergy to Lanolin is extremely rare and almost exclusively concerns people suffering from Dermatitis, meaning that it is a side effect of a skin inflammation and not an allergy in itself:

    Clark EW. Estimation of the general incidence of specific Lanolin allergy. Journal of Soc. Cosmetic Chemistry 1975;26:323-35.

 

    Clark determined the annual incidence of lanolin allergy in the general population to be 1.46 to 8.75 cases per million, meaning that at most one person in a hundred thousand people has a Lanolin allergy.



      His study can be read here:

  http://www.owndoc.com/pdf/lanolin-allergy.pdf

 

There is another study by A.M. Kligman that concludes that Lanolin allergy doesn't exist at all: link.

      You should find a cream (not an ointment, in your case) containing vit. A & D that has no anti-inflammatory properties, does not dry out the skin (= no Zinc etc.) and which comes in a tube to avoid risk of bacterial contamination. Sorry I can't be more specific - if I knew an alternative I would mention it, perhaps someone else reading this can comment.



        I recommend to wait a couple of hours when rolling with short needles before you apply Retin A and to wait a couple of days after rolling with long needles.

Note that Retin-A (Retinoic Acid) is not the best choice to supply vitamin A to "open" skin, because it's too acidic. Our ointment contains the much milder Retinol Acetate, which is slowly converted to Retinoic Acid in the skin is just as effective in supplying vit. A to the skin.

I hope you'll manage to find a good cream and get nice results!


1949
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Dermaroller and nonablative laser treatments
« on: February 04, 2010, 01:42:59 PM »
My two cents: Laser treatment causes thermic damage in the dermis, and a dermaroller damages the dermis mechanically. This will likely negatively interfere with one another, possibly disrupting the healing process. I don't think there is much data available, so it's only an educated guess.

I would advise doing these treatments sequentially with sufficient recovery time in between, depending on roller needle size and the "strength" of the Laser treatment. One month seems a good rule of thumb.

1950
>I am interested in derma rolling and have read that titanium needles are better than surgical steel.

>What validity does this argument hold?



Although Titanium implants are considered safe, we at the moment advise against using dermarollers with Titanium needles because there is some concern that metallic Titanium, when it gets into the bloodstream or disperses into tissue, can cause cancer:

http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc24.htm#PartNumber:6

Furst (1971) reported that titanium metal (pure powder of at

least 200 mesh) injected intramuscularly in 6 monthly doses, each

of 6 mg in 0.2 ml trioctanoin, induced 2 fibrosarcomas in 25 male

and 25 female Fisher-344 inbred rats and lymphosarcomas in 3 out of

25 males. Fibrosarcomas or lymphomas were not seen in the controls

given trioctanoin alone.


(3 in 25 is 12 in 100, meaning that 12% of lab rats developed cancer after having been exposed to Titanium metal in the second experiment, and 8% in the first experiment. Zero rats in the control group developed cancer.) Noone knows what the effect is of creating thousands of holes in the lower skin layers and "rubbing" Titanium into them.

You have to understand that dermaroller needles get blunt because the metal of their tips disappears deep into the skin. That is the actual process of blunting. The tips are "dissolved" and "chafed" by the skin. Seen the aforementioned study and the relatively large percentage of rats that ended up with tumors, we can not assume that monthly rolling with Titanium needles is safe. This research creates cause to suspect a long-term risk of skin cancer, using Titanium needles. There is even a greater risk in case of dermarolling as opposed to the rat experiment: With dermarolling, you are puncturing many cells, sometimes reaching the cell nucleus where the DNA resides. If finely-dispersed metallic Titanium indeed is carcinogenic as the research suggests, then you do NOT want small Titanium particles reaching skin cell DNA.

Another thing: There do not exist "home-rolling" dermarollers with Titanium needles.

Beware: The Medik8 roller, for example, has brass needles, not "gold-plated Titanium"..



I know it sounds biased, but I say it anyway: This Medik8 roller is in fact the absolute cheapest roller on the market - you can compare its plastic handle with that of the rollers that are for sale for less than ten dollars from eBay - which are absolute rubbish, they often have bent needles straight from the factory and in that case tear up the skin - you can be lucky and get one from a good batch, but they blunt quickly and have a whole lot of other problems such as a bending handle, making it impossible to exercise proper pressure. Bent needles are a huge problem with the cheaper rollers. If they aren't bent from the box, they'll bend later, due to the quality of the steel. I never make disparaging remarks about competing products - except when I am asked to comment, and when it is clear to us that the product is being deliberately misrepresented by its vendor.

There exist rollers with gold-plated Titanium needles, but those rollers cost a fortune (hundreds of dollars each) and are intended to be used on multiple patients and therefore they can be sterilized in an autoclave (using very high temperatures) and have an all-metal construction. Meaning that the roller that has the needles embedded, as well as the handle it is attached to, are made of metal, not some cheap injection-molded plastic. Such rollers are very heavy and are only used by licenced medical professionals (usually plastic surgeons) in expensive private beauty clinics. And these rollers have needle lengths of around 3 mm and turn the face into a bloody mess of minced meat. These rollers do exist, but not in the home-rolling market.