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Messages - SarahVaughter

Dermarolling / Microneedling / getting stretchmarks on my face
« on: September 28, 2010, 04:31:00 PM »
To soothe the skin, try a cream or ointment containing Dexpanthenol or Pantothenic acid.

For example

     Or take a cotton pad, wet it with tap water, add almond oil and spread it on your skin without any harsh rubbing. Almond oil is very soothing and it penetrates the skin.

1. Kind of silly to ask - but what exactly is the vitamin C good for (besides reducing pigmentation) ?Can it help thicken thin skin? Is it safe to use under the eyes?



  Collagen is the skin's main protein, produced by fibroblasts. Vit. C is necessary for collagen synthesis.

  Vit. C is a potent antioxidant, it protects the skin from oxidative damage and thus partially prevents photoaging.

  The human body does not produce vit. C itself. Primates and Guinea pigs are the only mammals that need to get their vit. C from food. The oral intake would have to be extremely high to achieve high levels of vit. C in the skin. That is why it is very beneficial to apply vit. C topically.

  Yes it is safe to apply it under the eyes. Avoid getting it into the eyes though. If you do by mistake, just rinse it.

Vit. C doesn’t thicken the skin by itself, but it stimulates collagen production. The skin under the eyes naturally has very little fat and the fat is further receding with age. Receding fat cannot be fixed by vit. C or dermarolling nevertheless vit. C rejuvenates the skin. There are many studies concerning vit. C's rejuvenating effects. Just two examples:


           Topical ascorbic acid on photoaged skin. Clinical, topographical and ultrastructural evaluation: double-blind study vs. placebo.


   Humbert PG, Haftek M, Creidi P, Lapière C, Nusgens B, Richard A, Schmitt D, Rougier A, Zahouani H.

  Department of Dermatology, Hospital Saint Jacques, University of Franche-Comté, Besançon, France.

     RESULTS: A highly significant increase in the density of skin microrelief and a decrease of the deep furrows were demonstrated. Ultrastructural evidence of the elastic tissue repair was also obtained and well corroborated the favorable results of the clinical and skin surface examinations. Topical application of 5% vitamin C cream was an effective and well-tolerated treatment. It led to a clinically apparent improvement of the photodamaged skin and induced modifications of skin relief and ultrastructure, suggesting a positive influence of topical vitamin C on parameters characteristic for sun-induced skin ageing.

Use of topical ascorbic acid and its effects on photodamaged skin topography.


  Beeson Aesthetic Surgery Institute, Carmel, Ind., USA.

  RESULTS: Clinical assessment demonstrated significant improvement with active treatment greater than control for fine wrinkling, tactile roughness, coarse rhytids, skin laxity/tone, sallowness/yellowing, and overall features. Patient questionnaire results demonstrated statistically significant improvement overall, active treatment 84.2% greater than control. Photographic assessment demonstrated significant improvement, active treatment 57.9% greater than control.

2. Should I be applying it along while dermarolling (it stings) or is it also useful for everyday use?

  It is useful for everyday use. Although regular application every other or third day is sufficient. Vit. C stays in the skin for several days.The half-life of vit. C in the skin is about four days. (The amount of vit. C present in the skin will halve every four days.)  

  Do not apply vit. C directly after rolling with long-needled rollers ( > 0.5 mm ). It will sting and burn the skin. Apply it the days prior to rolling to achieve maximum concentrations and re-continue applying the day or two days after rolling.

  You can try to apply vit. C directly after rolling with short needled rollers for skin care product penetration enhancement. If it stings too much ( vit. C is an acid), add more water to the serum. If it irritates the skin too much, do not apply it immediately after rolling.

3. Mixing the vitamin C solely with water makes a too thin solution (watery). Is it possible to mix it up with some glycerine ?If so, what is the best ratio for vit. C/ dilluted water / Glycerine?

  Vit. C has to be very low pH to be absorbed to the skin. Anything you add to it can change the pH and other characteristics.  That is why I do not recommend mixing it with anything. You can do that but you cannot be sure whether it affects its absorption or not.

                                 If you apply vit. C after rolling with short-needled rollers for products penetration, there will be high skin penetration. The downside is that it stings and in some sensitive individuals it may cause irritation.

   Applying it with aloe gel or glycerin is certainly better than not applying it at all.  Its absorption might not be compromised at all when mixed with something. It was just never studied so we do not know. There are studies about the absorption of ascorbic acid dissolved in water and only when its pH was very low, it got absorbed into the skin.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / How long will the redness last?
« on: September 24, 2010, 09:05:41 AM »
Addendum: I am not sure I understood your problem well.  Are your scars just red or raised? The redness after needling or rolling is just an inflammation and it always disappears depending how deeply and vigorously you needle.

   The procedure you described - subcision- is a different and much more traumatic procedure than needling.  You go horizontally underneath the scar with a thick needle and cut the fiber under the scar. The redness from subcision may last a very long time but it helps to release certain indented scars. The redness will heal, eventually.


  I understood from your email that your problem is that the scars are now raised, that's why I suggested the pressure massage. It is used for raised scars.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / How long will the redness last?
« on: September 24, 2010, 08:42:03 AM »
I have sent you this email:

Subcision is a procedure when you go horizontally under the scar with a syringe and you move it to cut up the fibrous bands that are holding the

scar down and make it indented. Loosening the bands usually makes the scar less indented and it is used especially for depressed acne scars.  Is that

the procedure you have had done and you call it "subsicion"? It would be very useful if I knew what king of procedure you had exactly.


The scar might still remodel since it takes many months so it can still  get  better. The skin in the nasolabial area doesn't have much skin fat and it has to  

be  treated carefully.


At the moment I would recommend you to do a pressure massage. Several times a day, you'll apply pressure with your fingers onto the scar for approx. 20

seconds, spot by spot.  This pressure might mechanically reduce your   raised scar. It is used in fresh surgery scars.


I would not recommend you to use a dermaroller at the moment. Let the scar  mature/remodel, try the pressure massage and let me know in 4-5 weeks

whether it improved. We will see what to do then.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / getting stretchmarks on my face
« on: September 23, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »
To clarify: I meant by "chemical treatments" just plain old cosmetic/vitamin creams, sorry if I wasn't clear enough :-)

Have you used any such creams prior to the appearance of the marks?

Dermarolling / Microneedling / getting stretchmarks on my face
« on: September 23, 2010, 10:54:15 AM »
In order to identify exactly what marks we're talking about and how they came about, we ideally would need this information:

1. Sharp, hi-resolution closeup photo's of the marks, photo's of the entire cheek and of individual marks.

2. A comprehensive list of all treatments (mechanical and chemical) performed on the skin prior to the appearance of the marks, say in the preceding six months.

3. Accurate treatment schedules performed, as in how often you micro-needled with what needle-length device, what was your technique etc.

An aquaintance of mine is a dermarolling expert (plastic surgeon and co-inventor of the dermaroller who does little else but microeedling nowadays). I can forward the pictures to him and ask what he thinks of it.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« on: September 14, 2010, 05:32:00 AM »
I've written about the improvements in the dermarolling section of our site. I achieved similar improvements as our customers (some pictures are available). I tried it on my scars, wrinkles, pigmentation spots and stretchmarks. Everything improved according to what I say you can expect when microneedling. No miracles but in some cases one single single-needling session can make a marked improvement, and three yielded a very significant, permanent improvement. The whiteness of scars and stretchmarks have gotten much better, I'd say they are only half as bright as before. As to John: I merely did small experiments on some of John's scars and pigmentation spots when I ran out of virgin territory on my own skin - he balked at first but he let me do it, finally. I also let him single-needle some stuff on my shoulders and back and that was even harder for me to let him do, at first.

I don't roll as religiously as some of our customers who send us before-and-after pictures. I don't really care so much about how I look any more, so I focus most on the technical aspects of rolling, I mainly do experiments on my skin to see how long it takes for something to permanently improve in appearance, how long it takes for redness to subside and that sort of thing. When I've established a reliable routine to treat stretchmarks, I won't always go on and treat the entire area. Apart from that, I am very much into microneedling - I have a "direct line" to one of the most well-known doctors in the field. Am learning all the time. I recently was told by him that he doesn't use Betadine to sterilize the skin because Iodine is a cell poison.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« on: September 13, 2010, 08:41:04 AM »
I've been rolling for a couple of years according to our dermarolling instructions:

I use the occasional copper peptide face mask, but I don't seem to find the time to relax and have the thing on my face for a while.. So my improvements are due to rolling alone (plus the vitamins of course, they are very important). I've been experimenting on my husband as well :-)

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« on: September 11, 2010, 08:43:33 AM »
Are you referring to our shipment? Our dispatch center is actually located in Prague, Czech Republic (operated by friends of ours) so that the cost of shipping is much less for our many international customers. We save on import taxes as well, and cost of personell. This is how we manage to sell our dermarollers for half the price that others sell them.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« on: September 10, 2010, 08:25:16 AM »
From their "what is SafeTox" page:

"Certain muscles close up the face and cause wrinkles. Safetox Beauty  relaxes these muscles"

While the former is true, I doubt that wrinkles due to lifelong "over-engaged frowning muscles" are going to disappear by 5 minutes of electrostimulation daily.

Muscles contract by getting a digital signal from the brain, a "pulsetrain". Without going into the details, the dutycycle of that pulsetrain largely determines how strongly the muscle is contracted. The total absence of any signal results in total relaxation. There is, as far as I know, no practical method of using electricity to relax a muscle - only to tense a muscle. By repeated tensing to the maximum contraction, a muscle can be temporarily paralyzed, indeed.

Medical literature mentions muscle relaxation by electric stimulation:

..but this is about something totally different than the "Safetox"  claims to do.  Such medical studies are about relaxing very tense muscles by stimulating them to cramp up and relax all night, hours at the time. And then they claim to see marginal improvements in severe, pathological muscle tension. The studies are paid for by the manufacturers of those devices.

The "Safetox" claims:

"A 5 minute session each day over a period of weeks is enough to educate  your muscles and restore the muscular dynamics of a youthful face"

This is of course complete nonsense, and surely they have no research data to back this up in the slightest. The wrinkles we are talking about emerged over decades of using the frowning muscles. There is no way that a little bit of muscle stimulation from a tiny battery, a few minutes per day, is ever going to fix that. And there is no such thing as "educating" muscles. I assume they just made that up because it sounds plausible.

Note how their site is packed with very specific promises and improvement percentages, as if they have done all kinds of medical trials. However, when you read about those trials, their site says that they did the trials themselves, and they claim that independent labs also did trials. However they neither mention those labs, nor do they make available any medical research papers.

However, in their attempts to sound scientific and specific, they made a revealing mistake. Their improvement percentages have not just digits behind the decimal point, they give figures such as -11.1% and -8.9%. That implies that they were able to measure the degree of wrinkliness with the incredible accuracy of tens of percents. That's just complete nonsense.  It would already be highly suspect if they would state increments of 0.5%, but 0.1% is pushing it too far. Their marketing department should shave of the rough edges here and there, lol. It's always the same with those atrociously overpriced pieces of junk claiming all sort of skin miracles. 317 dollars for a tiny piece of futuristic looking plastic costing less to produce than a ten dollar wristwatch. With not the slightest evidence to back up their unsubstantiated claims.

Of course I did some research into their claimed phenomenon of electro-inhibition but I only found their own patent:

(Note how the last paragraph mentions how cheap such a device is, to manufacture..)

All I can say is, if you believe that it can work and you have the cash to spare, by all means try it. I am quite sure it won't do much at all. However I have to concede that the patent holder of the Safetox, Pierre Rigaux, appears to be bona-fide in researching this topic, as he is the author of other material on electrostimulation of muscles:

This by itself means nothing though. Any doctor can spend some money on any patent (the merit of an invention is never an factor in a patent application) to gain credibility for an overpriced gadget. I believe the claims when I see research from independent scientists or at least some credible trial material apart from some photo's that are wholly inconclusive. From what is offered on the Safetox website, we can only assume the device is a sham, and its vendor will make an estimated 80% gross profit on each sale, while promising the moon.

I would invest my money into things that have really proven to work, as countless plastic surgeons and other medical professionals are now using in their own practice. Microneedling + vitamins. Much more effort and pain, but solid, proven results. Piles of medical test data to back that up, dozens of real medical doctors vouching for its efficacy, and not a lone inventor claiming incredible results without a shred of evidence. People like to believe in shortcuts, in miracle devices that use hi-tech to effortlessly solve health problems. People are prepared to trade money for having to expend less effort. However, such devices still do not exist. Effort and pain are still the only ways to permanently improve skin problems. Even Botox lasts only a relatively short time.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Saline injections for acne scars
« on: September 09, 2010, 04:33:38 AM »
Thank you very much for this feedback! I hope that this forum will become a place where people will share their experiences.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Q about hypertrophic scars needling
« on: September 06, 2010, 02:02:30 PM »
The edges rise up due to swelling. The edges also contain hardened collagen tissue that should become softened by needling. You do not have to needle the edges every single time you needle the scar.  Needle the edges just a few times.  I have never heard from any customer that needled indented scars or stretch marks that the edges would elevate (apart from temporary swelling).

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Saline injections for acne scars
« on: September 06, 2010, 01:59:54 PM »
> I've been looking into saline injection combined with needling to help

  > with scarring and acne pitting

  > I just wondered if you knew anything about this and how to go about

  > the procedure It seems

  > to work for these people. A combination of breaking down the collagen

  > and lifting the skin using

  > saline. Is this feasible Sarah? I'm not sure.

  This is definitely feasible and it works. Not for everybody though. As far  as I remember you had scars on your nose? Or wasn't it you? Sorry - I get so many emails that I do remember the stories but cannot connect them to names after a while. I don't think that it would work well on the nose. The nose is mainly made of cartilage and is not so easy to be "puffed up". You can always try though.


  A horizontal subcision of an acne scar with a syringe is performed to cut up the fibrous bands that are holding the scar down. Then bacteriostatic saline solution of NaCl + H2O ( for sale OTC in pharmacies) is injected with force into the acne scar. There is usually a little swelling after the injection for several minutes. A saline solution is not a filler - It will get absorbed within a day or days. The scar might be flat for some time but it will subside.


  A saline solution very temporarily puffs the scar up and further stretches the fibrous bands. Stretching the bands should make the scar slightly less indented.


  It also triggers collagen production - missing collagen is another contributor to the indentation of the scar.


  6-8 treatments are normally required to get results and the results are not immediate. It can take months. A saline solution is not perceived as foreign to the body so there is no risk of an allergic reaction.


  I recommend needling the scar with our single needle for a few weeks prior to the saline injections. Rolling and especially needling effectively functions as a vertical subcision. It cuts the fibrous septae and severs the scar's deep attachments.

It will also crush the hardened collagen fibers and increases the likelihood of success with the saline. Some people have good results and some don't.


  Some acne-afflicted just inject a saline solution (without subcision) into their scars and some obtain a slight improvement. It works better for wide scars.


  You can buy saline solution in the pharmacy. They also should have 30G diabetic needles.


  With a little bit of dexterity you can perform this procedure upon yourself. Don't forget to first remove any air from the syringe before you inject it into the skin.


  Some dermatologists perform this procedure. Probably advisable.

Other interesting methods:

Dermarolling / Microneedling / How long will the redness last?
« on: September 02, 2010, 06:10:21 AM »
Depending on how vigurously you do it and how deep, also depending on your own individual variability, how quick you heal, how deep the scars are, how thick and tough the collagen there is, redness can take anything from one to a few days. You should do a test with one scar first. Yes, you can cover the redness with tinted moisturizer and no, you don't need a Copper Peptide mask in this case.

Dermarolling / Microneedling / How long will the redness last?
« on: September 01, 2010, 03:46:46 PM »
The skin looks like you got mild sunburn for a couple of hours after dermarolling. The redness is usually gone within some hours.


  The single needling redness lasts much longer, depending how deep you go. That's why we advise our customers to needle only one or two scars in one session such as not to have too many red spots. You can needle every second day one scar or a couple of scars. In that way your face will always look allright - with just couple of red spots.


  I cannot answer how long it takes because I do not know what you are planning to roll. Your whole face? That takes about 20 minutes when you are proficient.


  Singe needling many scars on your face in one go would take quite some time if you do it thoroughly and properly. Needle the scar from different angles, to different depths and do not forget to do the edges. You should see some pinpoint bleeding with the single needling.


  This is our customer's thigh immediately after rolling with a 1.5 mm roller and the other photo shows how the skin looked the day after. The middle photo is an enlargement of the first.

                      Attached files