Derminator



Please only post questions when you could not find the answer searching this forum or our instructions. Pre-and post-sales questions about our products only. Thank you!

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - SarahVaughter

1696
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Rolling and mild lactic acid peels
« on: December 07, 2010, 05:28:46 PM »
Absolutely no problem with using 10% lactic acid, even the days before dermarolling.

  Any kind of very superficial or superficial peel is OK.

  10% lacid acid is very superfical.

  In this study, 92%, low pH lactic acid was used for Melasma:

  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17199649

   

 

   Classification of chemical peels:

   

  Exfoliation - can be used daily

   

  AHA 5-10%

  Retinoids

   

   

  Very superficial peels

   

  Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA) - glycolic acid and lactic acid up to 50%

  Beta-hydroxy acid - (BHA) - salicylic acid (excellent for acne prone skin since it cleans pores)

  Trichloroacetic acid (TCA) up to 10%

   

   

  Superficial peels - reach the epidermis - usually performed every 4-6 weeks

   

  TCA up to 30%

  AHA - up to 70% (left from 2 to 20 min)

  BHA

  Jessner’s solution – (contains 14% resorcinol, 14% salicylic acid, 14% lactic acid and ethanol)

   

   

  Medium depth peels - reach the papillary dermis - usually performed once in 6-12 months.


   

  TCA 30% to 40%

  Glycolic acid 70% + 35% TCA

  Jessner’s solution + 35% TCA

  Glycolic acid 70%

   

   

  Deep peels - reach the reticular dermis - Can be performed once every few years or once in a lifetime.


   

  TCA 50% or more

  Phenol

   

   

  The depth of penetration depends on many variables:

   

  The concentration of the peel

  The pH of the peel

  Thickness of the skin

  How many layers of the peel are applied

  How long it stays on

Unlike a deep acid peel, a dermaroller doesn't remove entire layers of skin (removing entire layers makes the skin prone to infection, uneven pigmentation or scarring and it takes a long time to heal).

With a dermaroller, you achieve deep renewal but the micro-holes are surrounded by untouched skin, which makes it much safer and quicker to heal. Therefore you can go much deeper with a dermaroller than with acid peels.

1697
Yes, it is an acute inflammatory stage. It can take hours or a couple of days but the injuries from dermarolling are miniscule and in most cases the acute inflammation subsides within 24 hours after rolling with long needles. It may take longer with single needling since it is a denser, more aggressive method. The intensity of the inflammation depends on the severity of the injury.

   

  Even if there was some residual inflammation after two days, it is not a big deal to apply a cream that is a part of your daily routine. Just don't apply a strong anti-inflammatory product right after dermarolling.

  This graph shows the stages of healing. Keep in mind that it pertains to serious injuries and wounds.

   

 

   

  Source: http://www.bmj.com/content/332/7547/962.full

                      Attached files

1698
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Lumps after rolling
« on: December 07, 2010, 02:00:13 PM »
I tend to agree that the lumps are not a result of rolling but an adverse reaction to a substance. You should temporarily stop with the Tretinoin gel and vit. C (they are both acidic and that could irritate the skin at the moment) and keep the skin moisturized.

   

  Roughness of the skin is normal for several days after dermarolling since the skin is being renewed.

   

  Keep us posted how it goes. I hope the lumps will disappear soon.

   

I found ethyl alcohol disinfectant in the UK:

   

  http://www.criticalenvironmentsolutions.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=9917900

Microzone "Chemicals"

   

  70% Ethanol solution

 

·    It consists of a solution of ethanol in deionised water - a standard disinfecting solution in bioclean rooms.

  ·    It is manufactured with high quality ethanol to ensure excellent performance and the minimum hazard to health.

 

http://www.elexind.it/Eng/Ambienti/Ambienti_prod1cf.htm

This product contains ethanol and purified water. Excellent for disinfection of dermarollers and the skin (alcohols dry the skin though). If you do not like it for your skin, use Betadine cream or solution. (which contains Povidone-iodine). Betadine is for sale in pharmacies and it is a good skin disinfectant.

1699
I hope that more people will share here their personal experience and advice concerning acne!

Try this: http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Oil-cleansing-method-to-get-rid-of-blackheadsp/a>

1700
Inflammation doesn’t last that long after dermarolling. Please read my posting about the nature of inflammation:

   

  http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/How-long-does-the-inflammation-stage-lasts-after-rolling-with-long-needles

In micro-injuries, the inflammatory stage rapidly completes, whereas collagen production and other triggered responses continue. They are unaffected by anti-inflammatories.  

   The full cycle of skin remodeling and collagen production takes several months because it is in fact a complex biochemical trajectory that is followed. The initial type of collagen is very slowly altered into a more permanent type of collagen. This is a non-inflammatory process.

1701
In science, nothing is ever known for sure. Every theory has its counter-theories, every law of physics even has its disbelievers. There is always something more subtle that remains undiscovered.

Just about every dogma is still challenged by some eminent scientists, and often with very good arguments and experimental backup.

All we can do is look at the assumedly correct facts, apply logic, look at the results people achieve over time, search the medical literature, experiment etc.

So far, it looks good for microneedling :-)

1702
You must have done it just right because everything you describe is as it should be.

   

  If you get red and tender after dermarolling, the pressure was right. Getting pinpoint bleeding is also a good sign (you reached the dermis part of the skin). The capillaries in the dermis are irregularly positioned and their density, as well as the thickness of the skin is individual so not everybody gets pinpoint bleeding.

1703
I can roll my entire face without using EMLA with the exception of the area around the mouth.

   

  Everything you describe is perfectly normal for rolling with 1.5 mm. The skin gets very red immediately after rolling and ever so mildly red the next day. Peeling comes days later and this might be unnoticeable. The skin is a bit rough and dry for several days after dermarolling while the skin is being renewed. Protect it from the sun and keep it moisturized. Everything is fine from what you described. Do not expect to see any results after the first rolling, you have to be patient.  It takes time.

1704
I am assuming you are referring to telomere shortening, causing aging due to the postulated Hayflick limit (theory).

It is fibroblasts and especially myofibroblasts that produce collagen. Since collagen production does not involve cell division and therefore telomere shortening (incidentally, not even sun damage causes telomere shortening) and collagen synthesis does not significantly wear out fibroblasts (which would eventually force them to divide, causing telomere shortening), we can assume that there is no risk of premature skin aging associated with microneedling.

Even if it were the case that collagen synthesis would cause telomere shortening, experts still believe that this will not result in premature aging:

Skin biologist Dr. Pickart investigated the Hayflick Limit (max. cell division limit due to telomere shortening) in his 1973 Ph.D. thesis and took the position that the Hayflick theory is at least partially incorrect. He argued that the theory of cells only being able to regenerate up to a certain generation or limit is unfounded. Dr. Pickart states that skin stem cells are plentiful in the skin, so that cells could continually be generated and remodeling can continue to occur. In the year 2000, it was discovered that the  skin has a constant source of new stem cells that arise from vellus hair follicles.  This work has been confirmed in many laboratories.

   As for limits on cell replication, most researchers in the area of cell culture doubt the Hayflick Limit (postulated about 1968) actually exists. If various growth factors are added to cultured cells, they seem to grow forever (for about 200 generations at least) without becoming mutated or cancerous. Such experiments are stopped not because the cells die, but because such long term experiments are expensive. Skin transplants from rat to rat to rat have been healthy for more than twice the lifespan of any rat.

"Stem cells by definition, have not yet been fully differentiated, and therefore many of these cells may continue to regenerate new cells for the entire lifespan of the organism, without limit, thus constituting a notable exception to the Hayflick limit in humans and other organisms. While the manifestations of the constant regenerative effects of stem cells is most easily seen in tissues which must constantly produce replacements for existing cells, such as skin and blood cells, stem cells of one form or another are found in every tissue of the human body, even if only as dormant stem cells known as "spore-like cells"."

http://www.molecularstation.com/wiki/Hayflick_limit

Cancer cells possess an enzyme called telomerase which is able to restore telomere length.

We conclude that there is no reason to believe that collagen production leads to telomere shortening, and that it even is controversial that telomere shortening causes premature skin aging.

In fact:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere

   

  In vitro studies (von Zglinicki et al. 1995, 2000) have shown that telomeres are highly susceptible to oxidative stress. Telomere shortening due to free radicals explains the difference between the estimated loss per division because of the end-replication problem (ca. 20 bp) and actual telomere shortening rates (50-100 bp), and has a greater absolute impact on telomere length than shortening caused by the end-replication problem.

 

From that follows that skin ages mainly due to oxidative stress (and, even more so, sun exposure).  Microneedling involves the pre- and post-application of fat-soluble (vit. A) and water-soluble (vit. C) vitamins, and because those powerful antioxidants they are applied to "open" skin, the powerful anti-oxidative effect of these vitamins brought deep into the skin counteract one of the most powerful causes of skin aging - oxidative stress.

So far, medium-term studies show significant improvement of microneedled skin that is sustained over the years that follow.

1705
Dermarolling / Microneedling / We now sell Retinoic Acid gel
« on: December 03, 2010, 06:09:51 AM »
We don't have the detailed list, sorry. I will ask the manufacturer. You can also do it yourself, below is a link to the box and the enclosed information.

But it most likely contains at least some alcohol, because Retinoic acid is not soluble in water, but it is in alcohol and fat.

Since it is not an ointment but a gel, you can assume alcohol is used:

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/A-Ret.pdf

1706
Dermarolling / Microneedling / derma stamp
« on: December 03, 2010, 03:00:49 AM »
It may be of interest that in fact the dermaroller is the "copycat" device.. The dermastamp was invented first, because it was the simplest method of mass-needling. The dermastamp is still going strong, existing in a variety of sizes, up to sizes that make "stamping" large areas of skin faster than "rolling".

The main thing is that one should use the best tool for the job, and there is a place for the dermastamp. We only sell it in the 1.5 mm version because treating acne scars with a shorter length is sub-optimal. So we're not looking just to fill up our store with all kinds of stuff. It took one year before we became convinced that there was a genuine utilization for it. Then we immediately proceeded to add it, because we like to be complete.

The same with Retinoic acid, that we recently added. We used to only offer a form of vit. A best suitable for after-care. But there also is the case of vit. A pre-care. Retinoic acid in a cream is better than Retinol acetate in an ointment for that purpose, and vice versa, Retinol acetate in an ointment is much better for post-needling than Retinoic acid.

But because we started small (with just 1.5 mm rollers) it takes time to expand, as we have to pay many thousands of dollars in advance for each product we add to our store.. We will add a few more products in the future, based on what we read in the scientific literature. Hyaluronic acid is interesting, for example. So far, we haven't been able to find a good quality, reasonable-priced Hyaluronic acid product suitable for microneedling.

1707
Dermarolling / Microneedling / breakouts at 30???
« on: December 02, 2010, 11:02:19 AM »
It is a known fact that many obese women with Polycystic ovary syndrome improve when they drop in weight.

 The fact that you suddenly have irregular and missing periods and acne strongly indicates hormonal imbalance (sex hormones) but you have to consult a gynecologist to confirm this and find out what the exact cause is and what your options are to resolve/treat it.

1708
Dermarolling / Microneedling / derma stamp
« on: December 02, 2010, 07:13:08 AM »
After having been asked repeatedly to start selling dermastamps, we offer the dermastamp specifically for those who do not want to use a dermaroller on larger areas of facial skin but just want to treat a local area with acne scars or wide stretch marks. When they have too many scars to do it efficiently by single needling, a dermastamp fills the niche between single needle and dermaroller. You can of course treat localized acne scar areas with a dermaroller as well but for some people a dermastamp might be easier to maneuver.

To sum it up, a dermastamp is ideal when the surface area to treat is a bit too large for a single needle, and a bit too small for a dermaroller. Rolling inevitably results in an elongated treatment area. Stamping treats only a small cirle.  You can treat irregular areas of acne scars easier with a dermastamp in some cases.

It's all about efficiently targeting the exact area you want to treat.

As to your remark on "copycat devices" and your hope about what we sell in our shop - Analizing your previous postings here and that peculiar remark, could you reveal what your stake is in this issue? Are you a co-inventor of the Dermaroller? Are you a microneedling practitioner?

1709
Dermarolling / Microneedling / breakouts at 30???
« on: December 01, 2010, 02:57:07 PM »
Acne is commonly caused/affected by male sex hormones.

   

  Also females produce a small amount of male sexl hormones.

   The fact that you do not suddenly have regular periods and you even have missing periods indicates you probably have a hormonal problem. This is not normal at your age (you are not in menopause yet).

   You should definitely see a gynecologist and have a hormonal check-up. You might have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome or some other hormonal disorder.

   Polycystic Ovary Syndrome

   

  “The principal features are obesity, anovulation (resulting in irregular menstruation or amenorrhea), acne, and excessive amounts or effects of androgenic hormones.”

  (Not everyone with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome is obese or has all of the above stated symptoms.)

1710
You can use such a cream two days after microneedling.