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Messages - SarahVaughter

1186
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Saline injections for acne scars
« on: January 26, 2012, 01:53:05 PM »
The depth of the skin itself (without the underlying fat) is certainly no more than 2 mm. Yes, inject it into the dermis. You should inject it to the bottom or slightly below the bottom of the scar to stretch and detach the scar from its anchoring.

   The article doesn't say it is not working for ice pick scars but it says:

   

  "Saline injections provide a safe, simple and cost effective solution for post-acne scarring, particularly atrophic, shallow boxcar scars."

1187
1) You can apply vit. C before applying the A-Ret. First, let the vit. C penetrate into the skin and then apply the A-Ret.  Or apply vit. C in the morning, let it penetrate and apply the other creams.

   

2) I think you should combine the aggressive rolling (1.5 mm every four weeks) with a 0.5 mm dermaroller (twice a week, if it is too irritating for your skin, roll only once a week). Using a dermastamp is also a good idea. Try it on your cheeks too. There is a chapter in our instructions about how to use a dermastamp:

  http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

Start slowly, with just a few stampings and if the skin heals well, increase it.

     

  Basically, you will have to improvise a little, trying different approaches because nobody knows yet what is the absolute best dermarolling approach regarding your skin problem, especially due to the unknown origin of the quick deterioration of your skin. Every now and then, give your skin a longer break from dermarolling. The customer who allowed us to post her photos here also allowed me to give you her email addresse, have you received it?

   

3) You can mix Infadolan with the A-Ret. They both contain vit. A.

  More details:

  http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Applying-Vitamin-A-(Besides-Retin-A)-after-Vitamin-C

 

  4) We will be delighted to post your pictures. Thank you!

1188
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Saline injections for acne scars
« on: January 25, 2012, 04:06:41 PM »
I have found an article where Dr. Sire who has been advocating and  performing this method explains how to do it. I post here the relevant  sentences:

 

  Dr. Sire:

 

"During the procedure, backlighting is important for creating shadows  that highlight scars' appearance. With such lighting, "You can see  changes in the surface of the skin to pinpoint where exactly the scars  are," Dr. Sire says.

 

"Usually I inject into the scar itself,  creating a bleb or bolus of saline, which then expands the scar.  Typically, there's only one injection into each scar," using a 30-gauge  needle     

Saline injection volume varies from 0.5 cc to 1 cc per injection site,  Dr. Sire says. Each treatment takes about 15 minutes, and most patients  see 20 to 80 percent improvement after five or six sessions.     

When injecting saline for post acne scarring, the needle tip is advanced  45 degrees into the dermis and the saline injected with the objective  of creating a wheal.     

Dr. Sire proposes that the treatment's mechanism of action stems from  the fact that stretching and physical stimuli provoke fibroblasts to  produce collagen and various growth factors.13     

In the eyes of peer-reviewed medical-journal editors, Dr. Sire says, the  saline procedure's simplicity is perhaps a disadvantage. "I've  submitted it before, and it's been ignored." Perhaps these editors  believe that "something this simple can't be that great," he says, "but  it actually is."     

 

  Sources:

 
http://digital.healthcaregroup.advanstar.com/nxtbooks/advanstar/dermatologytimes_201106/index.php?startid=S25#/128


http://digital.healthcaregroup.advanstar.com/nxtbooks/advanstar/dermatologytimes_201106/index.php?startid=S25#/130


   

 

Instead of retinoic acid, I highly recommend pre-treament of the scar  with single needling to re-establish metabolic activity and promote  revascularisation in the scar. Needling is excellent for this. It will  also soften the hard scar tissue and trigger collagen.

  The saline should be injected about once every 2 weeks.

   

  Do not buy one big bottle of saline but many small ones that you discard once opened. Keep it in the fridge.

  If you buy a big bottle of saline, do not dip a used needle or  anything into it - it will contaminate it. For your procedure, pour some  saline into another container that you had cleaned with boiling water  (do not use any sponges to clean it, sponges are bacteria breeders), and  discard it when you finish injecting.

  You must remove all air from the syringe before you inject.

1189
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Kelo-cote cream for hypertrophic scars
« on: January 24, 2012, 02:03:08 PM »
Kelo-cote is a silicone-based cream used in prevention or improvement of hypertrophic or keloid scars. The mechanism of action is not completely understood. Several studies findings suggest it is not the silicone itself that has an effect but it is the occlusion and hydration that forms under the silicone sheets which is effective in improving hypertrophic and keloid scars.

   

 

  Treatment of scars and keloids with a cream containing silicone oil

  Abstract



  The clinical effect of silicone cream containing 20% of silicone oil was tested on 47 patients with hypertrophic scars and keloids.



  A silicone cream/occlusive dressing technique, quite similar in manner to silicone gel treatment, resulted in a remarkable improvement of scars and keloids in 9 of 11 cases (82%) whereas the simple application of the cream onto the scars and keloids of 36 cases resulted in only mild improvement in 8 (22%).

  Using the chi-square test, a statistically significant difference was seen between these two treatments (p < 0.01).

From these findings, we suggest that occlusion and hydration are the principal modes of action of the silicone gel sheet method and our silicone cream/occlusive dressing technique.


 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2104531

   

   

  Cytokine mRNA changes during the treatment of hypertrophic scars with silicone and nonsilicone gel dressings.

   

  OBJECTIVE. To determine whether silicone is an essential factor in the treatment of hypertrophic scars and investigate the effects of occlusive dressing therapy on the expression of key wound healing mediators.

CONCLUSIONS. This study demonstrates that silicone is not a necessary component of occlusive dressings in the treatment of hypertrophic scars. The pathogenesis of hypertrophic scars is further elucidated by demonstrating that there is molecular evidence for extensive connective tissue remodeling occurring during occlusive dressing therapy.



  http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2614927

   

  Hydration and occlusion treatment for hypertrophic scars and keloids.

  Sawada Y, Sone K.

  Department of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Hirosaki University School of Medicine, Japan.

Abstract

  In 31 patients with hypertrophic scars or keloids, a side by side test was carried out to check the efficacy of an occlusive dressing technique using cream which did not contain silicone oil, versus a simple application of vaseline, used as a control. In all cases, the cream treated areas of scar and keloid demonstrated a remarkable improvement over that of the vaseline treated area. These findings strongly suggest that the mechanisms of hydration and occlusion are the main basis of the therapeutic action of this method in treating hypertrophic scars and keloids.



  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1493533

BTW, Infadolan ointment that we sell for dermarolling aftercare is a semi-occlusive ointment that prevents water evaporation from the skin and thus keeps it extra moisturized (just like silicone). Adding "water creams" or glycerin to the skin does not moisturize it for more than several minutes. Topically added water actually increases the evaporation of water from the skin. The skin contains enough water. The top layer of the skin works as a barrier that prevents evaporation from the skin. If this barrier doesn't work properly or is temporarily compromised, the skin becomes dry. Adding water does not solve it. Establishing a barrier that prevents water evaporation solves it. That is why oils are much better moisturizers than any light moisturizing cream because oils form a film on the skin that prevents the evaporation of water. The film however can be a problem with acne prone skin.

  You can wrap your scar into food wrap to enhance the occlusive effects of Infadolan or other products.

1190
Dermarolling / Microneedling / lines around the eyes and mouth?
« on: January 24, 2012, 01:40:29 PM »
You look much younger than you are.

   The deepening of skin folds is caused by:

   

  -loosening of ligament attachments that attach the skin to the underlying tissues and to the bone

   

  -loss of skin elasticity

   

  -loss of fat

   

  -gravitational forces

 

A dermaroller can improve only one of them and that is the loss of skin elasticity.

1191
The best approach in your case is a 0.5 mm dermaroller (used twice a week on your entire face) and a 1.5 mm dermastamp (used once every three weeks on your scars and indentations). Dermastamping is more laborious but you do not have to do both cheeks in one go. It is better to stamp one cheek thoroughly and the next day or any time later the other cheek.

1192
Dermarolling / Microneedling / We sell disinfectant now!
« on: January 22, 2012, 03:30:25 AM »
Yes you can do that, but you should not reuse the solution, so you can't soak the rollers directly in the litre of solution but have to poor it first into a glass for example.

How much Chloramine you need depends on the volume of the container you use to put the roller in. If you use a longdrink glass, you'll need very little.

1193
Kimberly -

  Is your skin texture a result of acne or was acne not an issue?

1194
How long the redness lasts is individual but on average, the initial redness that looks like a sunburn is gone within a few hours. There can be some residual redness, lasting for a day or two but this is not very noticeable.

   

  Some of our customers with sensitive skin are still quite red a day after dermarolling with long needles. That is why it is better to do the first roll without planning an important social event the day after - or do just a small test patch first.

   

  It also depends on what kind of product you apply afterwards. If you apply a cream that contains an acid (glycolic acid, lactic acid, retinoic acid, salicylic acid etc), it will make the skin redder.

   Single needling redness lasts longer and aggressively and deeply needled stretch marks or scars can stay red for a week or longer.

 

How is your redness today?

1195
The customer who has been dealing with a similar problem as Cheeky allowed us to post her emails and photos.

   

  Email and a photo of the right cheek from Sep. 12, 2011.

 Thanks for your response Sarah, I'm going to get the .5mm soon. My hopes

  with the 1.5 was for the lines connecting the pore to plump back up and that

  would hopefully make the pore seem smaller. You are right, when I pull the

  skin back the pores are much less visible but I have a bunch of horizontal

  lines.

  My skin was amazing 5 yrs ago. I did nothing special for it. Then just got

  extremely stressed, started smoking then went to dermatologist for

  congestion, one after another sold me stuff and gave me treatments that

  didn't work and maybe made it worse. After my first peel I noticed a ton of

  lines I didn't have before, I trusted her and went back for more and it

  became increasingly worse:( not very smart.

  I think the pigment you are seeing may be that I was still healing from the

  last time I rolled about two weeks prior to the picture but I will use the

  retin a twice a week.  Well, I just rolled again for the 4th time with the

  1.5 last night and may take a long break from that one and reevaluate in a

  few months.

   

   Email and a photo of the right cheek four months later (Jan 14, 2012)

   Yes, my skin has improved some and I am hopeful for even more success.

I rolled with the 1.5 3x 4 weeks apart and then rolled w a .5 weekly 3x.

My last 1.5 roll was 9/11/11 and my last .5

roll was the first week of November I believe. At that point I decided to

  take a break and see how my skin reacted long term. I have changed up my

  skin care routine a bit since my last roll to include adding the anti aging

  lightstim(that i am not super consistant with)and some other topicals. I

  never made friends with vitamin c but am looking at another type. I have

  done some light peels. I think one of my skins issues is the barrier is

  damaged or not functioning right. I'm going to look into a niacimacide(?sp)

  nag DIY serum.  One of the most benificial things I have been able to do is

  de-stress a bit. I am pretty sure stress  caused major problems for my skin.

  I'm planning to restart with rolling in February. I would say yes definately

  rolling has helped. The healing process does take time and I felt at times

  like I was going backwards but I do believe it's helping. I have read cheekys

 post and know exactly how she feels. Unfortunately the stress she is going thru

 with her skin is probably adding to the problem.

   

   

Part of her email from Jan 20, 2012


  I believe that derma rolling has been helpful for sure.

It's been about 2 1/2 months since I rolled last and I feel like

  the new collagen is really developing and adding a bit of fullness around

  the pores which is helping them to look smaller, shallower. But I think it's

  a combination of things as well.

                      Attached files

1196
Dermarolling / Microneedling / lines around the eyes and mouth?
« on: January 19, 2012, 03:43:56 PM »
No, dermarolling will not help with these lines, because they are not wrinkles. You have a wrinkle-free face.

   

  The line at the outer edge of your eye is not caused by aging. It is a normal part of the area around the eye. When you look at the photo of the baby in this link (forum posting #3), you will see that even babies have them. The line is especially pronounced in his left eye. The baby has lines under its eyes but also at the outer edge (the same line you are referring to):

http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/can-i-use-a-dermaroller-on-this-area-under-the-eye-%28pic-included%29

   

  In the future, you will likely develop crow's feet but you do not have them yet.

   

  The line at the outer edge of your lips is a skin fold. I know I may sound annoying but the baby from the link above also has the same fold.

   

  Little girls have that fold as well:

http://www.thedeafblog.co.uk/blind%20child.jpg
   

    We are born with skin folds.  As we age, the folds deepen due to the drop down of the skin and the underlying skin structures. A mild skin laxity can be improved by dermarolling and tightening the skin by dermarolling can slightly improve the depths of skin folds deepened by aging.

   

  Your skin however doesn’t have any laxity and other signs of aging. There is nothing dropping and in my opinion, nothing to improve.

1197
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Is this normal ?
« on: January 19, 2012, 03:21:30 PM »
My email is sarah@owndoc.com

1198
Dermarolling / Microneedling / betadine %
« on: January 19, 2012, 02:43:52 PM »
A wet cotton pad.

1199
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Is this normal ?
« on: January 19, 2012, 02:36:04 PM »
No that is not normal and I am sorry about this!

   

  The skin on the arms is thinner that the skin where the stretch marks routinely are - the hips, buttocks, thighs etc. Single needling thin skin deeply can unfortunately cause bruising. If you send me an email with your address, I will instruct our dispatch center to send you shorter needles for free. We have some in stock. It could also be that you received some that were a little too long.

  We have ordered a new batch of single needles that are shorter.

Have you needled vigorously? (with the single needle on the inside of the arms, that's a no-no - I'll add that to our instructions ASAP.)

1200
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Internal lid scar/05 dermaroller
« on: January 18, 2012, 12:14:35 PM »
Unfortunately I have to disappoint you. Dermarolling or needling cannot be performed on the eyelids due to the risk of eyeball injury.

   My reply is number 3:

   

  http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Can-I-use-a-Dermaroller-on-this-area-under-the-eye

   

  Skin thickness varies. The thinnest skin is on the eyelids, the thickest on the footsoles. Skin thickness also varies individually.  It is possible to use needles on the eyelids, for example in permanent make up procedures but I really cannot recommend "homerolling" the eyelids and taking the risk of

  pricking the eyeball.

     

  I advise consulting a dermatologist or perhaps a plastic surgeon.