Derminator



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Messages - SarahVaughter

1156
Dermarolling doesn’t remove skin layers, it just merely pricks it and that is why it heals very rapidly and nicely. There is nothing special required, other than supplying ithe skin with vitamins and keeps it moisturized. Infadolan has vit. A and D.

   

  Concerning vit. E:

   

http://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:2n35NMFTs6oJ:scholar.google.com

Vitamin E



The role of vitamin E (a-tocopherol) in wound
 

healing  
is controversial, because possesses positive

and negative effects. Vitamin E is a known antiox-
 

idant that has anti-inflammatory properties. It alters
 

prostaglandin production by inhibiting phospholipase
 

A2 activity, resulting in decreased collagen produc-
 

tion and decreased inflammation. Most authors agree
 

that high doses of vitamin E lead to delayed wound
 

healing  
[25]. For cutaneous wounds, topical vitamin E

appears to offer no cosmetic benefit and its applica-
 

tion may actually be detrimental [26].
 

For diabetics, vitamin E may offer some benefit in
 

wound healing. Two studies [27,28] using diabetic
 

mice models have shown improvement in wound
 

healing  
using vitamin E, by a proposed mechanism

of inhibition of lipid peroxidation. Although the exact
 

role of vitamin E in wound healing is not understood,
 

it appears to involve cell differentiation, epithelializa-
 

tion, cell-mediated immunity, the early inflammatory
 

response, and angiogenesis [29,30]
   

  However, the results of studies concerning vit. E and would healing are inconsistent.

1157
>For stretch marks, getting the single liner 1.5mm roller is just as good as the single

>needles?

   

  The single needles are the most effective.  A one liner is very effective.

     

 

>Between derma-rolling, with a frequency of 3 to 4 weeks, do I use the single liner roller

>just once on each scar, covering few scars each time?


   

  Yes. Roll each stretch mark very densely. "Crush" the scar collagen.

   

   

  > Is it necessary to have bleeding during this process as it is expected that the needles be >pierced in deeper than the normal roller?

   

  It depends where you roll and how thick your skin is.

  The thickness of the skin is not the same all over the body and it differs individually as well. It is not necessary to get bleeding.

 

 

  >Could I use a mixture of cocoa&shea butter, Vitamin E oil, argan oil, castor oil, virgin

>olive oil, rosehip oil and skin evener after rolling and also on a daily basis on the scars?

   

  Yes.

   

   

  >Could I also add lemon juice and fresh aloe vera to this mixture? Or do you suggest me

>applying tretinoin and infadolan instead.

   

  I am not sure why you want to add lemon juice because it contains only a very small amount of vit. C.  Aloe vera is a strong anti-inflammatory. You can apply it but not right after dermarolling, If you roll in the evening, you can apply it in the morning.

   

  In my posting #4 I link to the studies explaining why to use Tretinoin. It depends on you.

1158
Dermarolling / Microneedling / We sell disinfectant now!
« on: February 07, 2012, 11:34:29 AM »
Do not use disinfection containing more than 80% alcohol because it evaporates too quickly and as such doesn't have time to disinfect the skin properly. You can buy it but dilute it with water. It should be between 50% and 80%. Alcohols are most effective when combined with water to facilitate diffusion through the cell membrane; 100% alcohol typically denatures only external membrane proteins. Meaning: Pure alcohol simply doesn't sterilize very well.

  Regarding isopropyl alcohol:

   

  I think it is better to use isopropyl alcohol in combination with ethanol.

  We have two customers who soaked their roller in 70% isopropyl bought in a dollar store and their roller got loose needles (isopropyl is a solvent).

  Other customers who used isopropyl did not experience this problem but I am not sure what percentage they used.

  As a test, we soaked our dermaroller for 48 hours in 45% ethanol and 30% isopropyl without any problems whatsoever:

 

http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Can-t-find-proper-disinfection-alcohol

   

  How to disinfect the roller:

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

   

Denatured alcohol is ethanol that contains additives to make it toxic. One of the common additives to make ethanol deadly is adding methanol - methylated spirits. Nevertheless, not all denatured alcohols are suitable for skin disinfection or even for dermaroller disinfection.  You have to check whether it doesn't contain gasoline, kerosene or other very harsh solvents.

 

I found this on the net (attribution below):

  What is the difference between denatured alcohol and rubbing alcohol?

  Denatured alcohol is ethanol to which poisonous and foul-tasting chemicals

  have been added to make it unfit for drinking. There is more than one recipe

  for denaturing alcohol; some add methanol or isopropanol, some gasoline, and

  so on.

 

  Rubbing alcohol is an alcohol intended to be rubbed on the skin. Frequently

  70% iso-propyl alcohol / 30% water is used; sometimes ethanol with added

  iso-propyl alcohol is used. You don't want to use denatured alcohol that is

  made with anything that shouldn't be placed on the skin, such as gasoline!

 

  So, some, but not all, kinds of denatured alcohol can be used as rubbing

  alcohol. Rubbing alcohol may also not contain any ethanol at all, which

  would disqualify it from being "denatured". So, some but not all kinds of

  rubbing alcohol are denatured alcohol, and some but not all kinds of

  denatured alcohol can be rubbing alcohol.

 

  Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph.D.

  Assistant Director

  PG Research Foundation, Darien, Illinois

1159
Dermarolling / Microneedling / We sell disinfectant now!
« on: February 07, 2012, 12:00:14 AM »
Yes, but you'd have to follow our user guidelines. You should also clean the roller the way we describe. Just spraying with alcohol after rolling without rinsing the roller in soapy water first is a bad idea and it can result in infection, sooner or later.

1160
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Derma roller, number of needles?
« on: February 06, 2012, 11:42:42 PM »
In the shopping cart, there is a field at the bottom where you can estimate the cost of shipping. When a country is in there, we ship to it. Singapore and the Philippines are there and we enabled Malaysia as well.

The minimum postage fee is $15 (much higher than to the US or Europe) because we send every order to some countries tracked by default - based on our long-term experience with a large percentage of delayed packages (we're assuming it's usually customs) or refund requests for non-delivery.

1161
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Postage to Malaysia?
« on: February 06, 2012, 11:40:27 PM »
I am now going to re-enable Malaysia, and I hope that we will see less problems in the past with customs delays of shipments containing vit. C powder (which looks like cocaine..)

We will add 15 dollars for a tracked shipment.

We noticed that orders containing vit. C power often never arrive or are extremely delayed to all countries where narcotics smuggle or narcotics sales are capital offences.

It may be a good idea not to order any white powders from us when you live in such a country.

1162
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Is such fast progress really possible?
« on: February 06, 2012, 02:08:02 PM »
Interesting, would you mind sharing your method with the single needle?

   

  There is no way your stretch marks are still swollen from single needling after one month, neither from the subsequent dermarolling so if they are less indent, it can be a permanent improvement.

   

  Regarding the improvement of the color, if you crushed the scar collagen (which has a shiny white color) with the single needles, the stretch marks will permanently lose the shiny white color and become beige. The beige color will better blend with the surrounding skin. Usually, it takes several needling sessions to crush all shiny white collagen bundles but it is not unlikely that you managed to crush it the first time.

   

  Do not get prematurely excited though, the improvements may still reverse a little. It is really difficult to say.

1163
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Red marks
« on: February 06, 2012, 10:33:59 AM »
It depends how deep the marks are. It looks like your 15 years old marks are very deep.

   

  The upper layer of the skin - the epidermis - has a turnover of about 25 days. If the marks were in the epidermis, they would be gone by themselves within several months. If you have had them for 15 years, it means they are in the dermis (deep skin layer). The turnover of the dermis is extremely slow. Dermarolling that reaches the dermis speeds up the turnover of the dermis.

   

  A 0.5 mm dermaroller can reach the top of the dermis. Continue rolling both with the 0.5 mm and the 1 mm rollers. One month is not enough.

   Our customers' hyperpigmentation improved on average after six months of rolling.

   If your red marks are not skin pigmentation but they are in fact dilated blood vessels (telangiectasia, spider veins), dermarolling will not help.

  You will in that case need a vascular laser.

1164
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Derma Rolling at home vs. professionally
« on: February 05, 2012, 07:13:53 AM »
No, the pinpoint bleeding is not necessary for successful treatment and you may or may not get it with a 1 mm roller. Neither strong pressure, nor red light post treatment is needed.

1165
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Makeup after dermarolling
« on: February 05, 2012, 06:25:36 AM »
No powders should be applied right after dermarolling because they dry out the skin and it is important to keep the skin moisturized.

  The base of your mineral powder is: Titanium Dioxide 14%, Zinc Oxide 3%.

  These are actually physical sun-blocks that protect you from sun damage. However, it is better to apply a sunscreen (nowadays almost all sunscreens contain Titanium Dioxide or Zinc Oxide).

   

  Other ingredients of the powder:

 

Mica, Boron Nitride, Dimethicone, Stearic Acid, Plankton Extract, Algae Extract, Pine Bark Extract, Pomegranate Extract. May Contain: Iron Oxides, Ultramarines, Chromium Oxide Greens.

  Some these ingredients could interfere with the collagen regeneration process so they should not be applied to freshly dermarolled skin.

Chromium Oxide green specifically can cause skin irritation:

http://www.naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=427-15S

  If you don't want to go outside without make-up then apply it but there is absolutely no reason to leave it on overnight.

1166
Yes, Tretinoin is for pre-treatment but in case of stretch marks, surgical- or other scars, it is massaged in right after needling as well.

   

  - Pretreat your skin with vit. C and Tretinoin.

   

  - Needle the stretch marks. Massage Tretinoin into individual stretch marks. Apply a little Infadolan over the needled area. Continue applying a little Infadolan every day until it is completely healed.

   

  - A day or two after needling, re-start applying vit, C (three times a week is enough). If you are still applying Infadolan, first let the vit. C penetrate the skin and then apply Infadolan.

   

  - Apply Tretinoin on the days when you do not apply vit. C. You can do it in turns. (Infadolan can be applied right after Tretinoin).

1167
I have just answered your question here (it deserved a new thread):

http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/recell-and-dermarolling/

1168
Dermarolling / Microneedling / ReCell and dermarolling
« on: February 05, 2012, 06:21:08 AM »
>My question is about ReCell, a new spray-on skin treatment by Avita

>Medical that uses the patient's own skin. It is supposed to help improve

>skin texture. Unfortunately, it must be used after a procedure that injures

>the skin, such as dermabrasion or laser. I do not wish to undergo those

>procedures. Do you think the ReCell treatment could be beneficial if

>applied after and agressive needle-rolling session? And do you have any

>thoughts about ReCell?

 

  The ReCell method is based on removing a small piece of epidermis (below the ear). The Epidermis is the outermost skin layer and it is only about 0.1- 0.3 mm thick.

 

  The removed epidermis is processed to separate the cells and a suspension (a fluid containing solid particles) is made. It contains epidermal cells - keratinocytes, melanocytes, fibroblasts and Langerhans cells.

   

  The suspension is applied to unhealed injuries, especially to burns. It speeds up re-epithelization of the injury. The quicker an injury heals, the greater the likelihood that it heals with a scar that is not hypertrophic.

     

  ReCell is also used to re-pigment hypopigmented areas.

  Various methods of melanocyte (cells producing skin pigment melanin) transfer have already been successfully used for a long time for Vitiligo. The epidermis from a normally-pigmented area is removed/scratched off, then processed (or not) and applied on the area with hypopigmentation that had been abraded beforehand, to enable the "uptake" of the applied melanocytes.

   

  It is an interesting method, however it is still risky and complicated.  Needling/dermarolling is incomparably easier and it actually triggers melanocyte production. Furthermore, needling the hypopigmented area, including needling slightly outside of its borders will enable a rapid migration of the melanocytes from the surrounding normal skin into the hypo-pigmented areas. We have many customers who permanently fixed their hypopigmentations with needling.

   

  Concerning your question: Applying ReCell after dermarolling/needling would likely allow the applied cells to penetrate and be "taken". However, there is no need for speeding up the healing time after dermarolling because healing is already extremely fast due to the fact that dermarolling does not remove the epidermis. It merely pricks it. There are small microinjuries from the needles but these heal rapidly.

   

  Dermarolling triggers production of all the cells that are in the epidermal suspension thus I do not think you will benefit applying it. It will certainly not make the pores smaller or smooth out the skin texture.

   

  ReCell is very beneficial for quick re-epithelization of an injury or any other case where quick epitheization is helpful – for example, after abrading a hypertrophic burn scar, after skin transplants, after a very deep acid peel, after ablative laser resurfacing etc. It will speed up the healing time and thus prevent potential problems, such as infection, scarring etc.

1169
Apply Tretinoin to your stretch marks after needling and also about four times a week (without needling).

   There is no reason to stay away from vitamin E. The hysteria about vit. E came about due to some medical studies that found out that vit. E doesn't accelerate/help healing (until then it was believed it does).  The injury where vit. E had not been applied actually healed slightly quicker but it doesn't really mean vit. E is bad or causes in general bad healing.

1170
I am sorry you got this experience! "Real" (permanent) wrinkles can fortunately not form overnight. The most probable explanation is that in your case, for some reason, the vitamin C, the Infadolan, or something else dried out your skin. There recently was a customer who reported weird effects from "Infadolan" but in fact she meant Tretinoin cream - you are sure you used Infadolan, correct? A dryer skin makes the lines (that are normally almost invisible) more pronounced. This is only temporary.

   

  We have sold many thousands of Infadolans and it was always intended for dermarolling aftercare. The only reason I later started recommending its application around the eyes was because I was getting quite a few emails stating that daily application around the eyes visibly improved the lines. The skin around the eyes has almost no oil glands and therefore tends to be dry. These people did not use vit. C prior to applying Infadolan though. Perhaps some would have worse results if they'd apply a large concentration of vit. C beforehand. How much did you dilute the vit. C, and how long did you wait before putting the Infadolan on top of it?

  A few customers with acne prone skin who applied Infadolan for several days after dermarolling complained it triggered acne breakouts. I am warning about it in our dermarolling instructions.  

   

  We also got emails saying they started using Infadolan for more than just dermarolling aftercare - for example applying a little bit of Infadolan on facial skin after shaving. It is also very popular for the back of the hands.

   

  To make a long story short, if we got any complaints at all, it was about Infadolan making the skin too oily.

  However, even though your case is very rare (the only one so far reporting extra wrinkles), not everybody's skin reacts exactly the same to the same product.

It is very hard to attribute this to Infadolan when we do not know what the effect of e.g. a high % of vit. C on the eyelids is, with Infadolan applied soon afterwards for example.

If you would be allergic to vit. C or Infadolan, both eyes would have wrinkles. That would also have been the case when the ingredients would somehow be tainted I suppose.

  Recently, one customer wrote us Infadolan made her skin dry; nevertheless she was using A-Ret as well, which is known for making the skin temporarily dry.

Have you been using Retinoic acid (Tretinoin, A-Ret) at all, in the preceeding days?

   Exfoliation for example often makes the skin temporarily drier.

   

  As you mentioned, some users of Retinoic acid initially experience "worsening" of their wrinkles or even "appearance" of lines (mainly around the eyes). This is a temporary effect due to dryness of the skin before the skin gets used to Retinoic acid.

   

  Infadolan doesn't contain Retinoic acid - it contains Retinyl acetate that is slowly metabolized to Retinoic acid in the skin.  It is much less potent than applying Retinoic acid directly to the skin but it is also less irritating.

   

  Vit. C can also dry out the skin in high concentrations but since you applied it only once, I am not sure whether this is the reason.

   

  You should stop using the products and give the skin time to go back to normal.

To sum it up: Neither vit. C nor Infadolan should cause wrinkles, but perhaps in very rare cases it could cause a temporary effect such as you describe.

It would be nice to know more detailed information about your case.