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Author Topic: Needling and antifibrotic gel  (Read 4047 times)

bpb

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Needling and antifibrotic gel
« on: March 01, 2011, 07:49:14 PM »
Hello all, my first post on this forum. :)

My question is following. I have a slightly hypertrophic scar on my arm and I would like to improve it. I have a tube of scar treatment gel that contains antifibrotic agent Pirfenidone (5-Methyl-1-phenylpyridin-2-one).

It should reduce scar formation and inflammation by suppressing growth factor TGF-B and TNF-Alpha. As far as I know it has been used as a treatment for fibrotic lung diseases. I have used it for some time and have seen some results, but the scar I'm treating is over five years old and hardened.

Would it make any sense to use this gel together with needle abrasion? I was thinking that needling would directly remove tiny amount of scar tissue each time and Pirfenidone would reduce replication or scar tissue. I've heard that some plastic surgeons use little similar products after laser procedures to avoid recurrence of scarring.

Or would it be better to use vitamin C and Infadolan before and after each needling session and use the gel on resting periods between each needling, I read on this forum that anti-inflammatory products should not be used immediately after needling? And how about GHK-Cu copper peptides for same purpose?

Thank you. :)

SarahVaughter

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Needling and antifibrotic gel
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 09:15:12 AM »
It is certainly a good idea to try topical application in combination with needling. But only in case of fibrotic scars such as you have. It is not suitable for acne scars because it inhibits collagen production and fibroblast proliferation.

   

    Pirfenidone:

"An orally active synthetic antifibrotic agent structurally similar to pyridine 2,4-dicarboxylate. Pirfenidone inhibits fibroblast, epidermal, platelet-derived, and transforming beta-1 growth factors, thereby slowing tumor cell proliferation. This agent also inhibits DNA synthesis and the production of mRNA for collagen types I and III, resulting in a reduction in radiation-induced fibrosis.

   

  http://nci.nih.gov/drugdictionary?CdrID=38334

   

I think the topical formulation of Pirfenidone is called Kitoscell.

  It claims to reduce the fibrous scars by inhibition of growth factor TGF-B1 production. Unfortunately, the medical trials of the product that worked on the same principle failed to reach the desirable effects. The product was called Juvista.

Phase III of their trials failed:

Professor Mark Ferguson, CEO Renovo, said: "We are extremely surprised and disappointed by the failure of Juvista to meet the Phase III trial primary and secondary endpoints."

   http://www.renovo.com/en/news/juvista-eu-phase-3-trial-results

   

Would you be willing to treat half of your scar with needling only and the other half with the Pirfenidone and needling and let us know the results?

 In any case, let us know your results.

   At the moment and as far as I am aware of, there are no credible products for the prevention or treatment of dermal scarring.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

bpb

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Needling and antifibrotic gel
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 10:18:06 AM »
Okay, thank you for the answer.

Yes, there seems to be similarities between Juvista and Kitoscell. Except that, as far as I know, Juvista is an injection of additional TGF beta 3 growth factor and Pirfenidone is a substance that should regulate levels of naturally synthesized growth factors (TGF beta 1, tumor necrosis factor alpha, platelet derived growth factor, etc..) in tissues. Also Kitoscell is not an injection but topical gel that can be used for unlimited amount of time.

I already had one needling session done at tattoo shop using a tattoo machine. It gave some improvement but it was too expensive for me to be done five times or more. Also many sources claim tattoo machine is not very good for microneedling so I'll rather do it myself using single needle using Kitoscell to hopefully aid healing. Maybe I should still use topical vitamin C? I see no reason why it would interfere with Kitoscell.

SarahVaughter

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Needling and antifibrotic gel
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 07:22:08 AM »
Use vit. C, no problem.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid