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Author Topic: Does the Safetox work? (opinion)  (Read 9137 times)

Zelda

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« on: September 10, 2010, 03:17:14 AM »
Sarah

Just wondered what your opinion was on this gadget? It seems to get mixed views and I wondered if it was worth buying alongise doing dermarolling?

thanks as ever for your sage advice.

SarahVaughter

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 08:25:16 AM »
From their "what is SafeTox" page:

"Certain muscles close up the face and cause wrinkles. Safetox Beauty  relaxes these muscles"

While the former is true, I doubt that wrinkles due to lifelong "over-engaged frowning muscles" are going to disappear by 5 minutes of electrostimulation daily.

Muscles contract by getting a digital signal from the brain, a "pulsetrain". Without going into the details, the dutycycle of that pulsetrain largely determines how strongly the muscle is contracted. The total absence of any signal results in total relaxation. There is, as far as I know, no practical method of using electricity to relax a muscle - only to tense a muscle. By repeated tensing to the maximum contraction, a muscle can be temporarily paralyzed, indeed.

Medical literature mentions muscle relaxation by electric stimulation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7557797

..but this is about something totally different than the "Safetox"  claims to do.  Such medical studies are about relaxing very tense muscles by stimulating them to cramp up and relax all night, hours at the time. And then they claim to see marginal improvements in severe, pathological muscle tension. The studies are paid for by the manufacturers of those devices.

The "Safetox" claims:

"A 5 minute session each day over a period of weeks is enough to educate  your muscles and restore the muscular dynamics of a youthful face"

This is of course complete nonsense, and surely they have no research data to back this up in the slightest. The wrinkles we are talking about emerged over decades of using the frowning muscles. There is no way that a little bit of muscle stimulation from a tiny battery, a few minutes per day, is ever going to fix that. And there is no such thing as "educating" muscles. I assume they just made that up because it sounds plausible.

Note how their site is packed with very specific promises and improvement percentages, as if they have done all kinds of medical trials. However, when you read about those trials, their site says that they did the trials themselves, and they claim that independent labs also did trials. However they neither mention those labs, nor do they make available any medical research papers.

However, in their attempts to sound scientific and specific, they made a revealing mistake. Their improvement percentages have not just digits behind the decimal point, they give figures such as -11.1% and -8.9%. That implies that they were able to measure the degree of wrinkliness with the incredible accuracy of tens of percents. That's just complete nonsense.  It would already be highly suspect if they would state increments of 0.5%, but 0.1% is pushing it too far. Their marketing department should shave of the rough edges here and there, lol. It's always the same with those atrociously overpriced pieces of junk claiming all sort of skin miracles. 317 dollars for a tiny piece of futuristic looking plastic costing less to produce than a ten dollar wristwatch. With not the slightest evidence to back up their unsubstantiated claims.

Of course I did some research into their claimed phenomenon of electro-inhibition but I only found their own patent:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0276451.html

(Note how the last paragraph mentions how cheap such a device is, to manufacture..)

All I can say is, if you believe that it can work and you have the cash to spare, by all means try it. I am quite sure it won't do much at all. However I have to concede that the patent holder of the Safetox, Pierre Rigaux, appears to be bona-fide in researching this topic, as he is the author of other material on electrostimulation of muscles:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/muscle.pdf

This by itself means nothing though. Any doctor can spend some money on any patent (the merit of an invention is never an factor in a patent application) to gain credibility for an overpriced gadget. I believe the claims when I see research from independent scientists or at least some credible trial material apart from some photo's that are wholly inconclusive. From what is offered on the Safetox website, we can only assume the device is a sham, and its vendor will make an estimated 80% gross profit on each sale, while promising the moon.

I would invest my money into things that have really proven to work, as countless plastic surgeons and other medical professionals are now using in their own practice. Microneedling + vitamins. Much more effort and pain, but solid, proven results. Piles of medical test data to back that up, dozens of real medical doctors vouching for its efficacy, and not a lone inventor claiming incredible results without a shred of evidence. People like to believe in shortcuts, in miracle devices that use hi-tech to effortlessly solve health problems. People are prepared to trade money for having to expend less effort. However, such devices still do not exist. Effort and pain are still the only ways to permanently improve skin problems. Even Botox lasts only a relatively short time.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Zelda

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 03:41:19 AM »
Excellent - you have save me more money.  I am definately planning to start rolling soon its just I am going away for a week soon and don't want my delivery to arrive then.  As it's coming from US to UK it can take about 2 weeks.

SarahVaughter

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 08:43:33 AM »
Are you referring to our shipment? Our dispatch center is actually located in Prague, Czech Republic (operated by friends of ours) so that the cost of shipping is much less for our many international customers. We save on import taxes as well, and cost of personell. This is how we manage to sell our dermarollers for half the price that others sell them.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Zelda

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 08:04:47 AM »
Oh that's great news.

Sarah - just wondered how long you have been rolling and what's your routine? do you use cp's and vic C?

SarahVaughter

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 08:41:04 AM »
I've been rolling for a couple of years according to our dermarolling instructions:

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

I use the occasional copper peptide face mask, but I don't seem to find the time to relax and have the thing on my face for a while.. So my improvements are due to rolling alone (plus the vitamins of course, they are very important). I've been experimenting on my husband as well :-)
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Zelda

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 03:08:51 AM »
Thanks Sarah - what exact improvements have you noticed? well done for bringing hubby along - not an easy task I would imagine.

SarahVaughter

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 05:32:00 AM »
I've written about the improvements in the dermarolling section of our site. I achieved similar improvements as our customers (some pictures are available). I tried it on my scars, wrinkles, pigmentation spots and stretchmarks. Everything improved according to what I say you can expect when microneedling. No miracles but in some cases one single single-needling session can make a marked improvement, and three yielded a very significant, permanent improvement. The whiteness of scars and stretchmarks have gotten much better, I'd say they are only half as bright as before. As to John: I merely did small experiments on some of John's scars and pigmentation spots when I ran out of virgin territory on my own skin - he balked at first but he let me do it, finally. I also let him single-needle some stuff on my shoulders and back and that was even harder for me to let him do, at first.

I don't roll as religiously as some of our customers who send us before-and-after pictures. I don't really care so much about how I look any more, so I focus most on the technical aspects of rolling, I mainly do experiments on my skin to see how long it takes for something to permanently improve in appearance, how long it takes for redness to subside and that sort of thing. When I've established a reliable routine to treat stretchmarks, I won't always go on and treat the entire area. Apart from that, I am very much into microneedling - I have a "direct line" to one of the most well-known doctors in the field. Am learning all the time. I recently was told by him that he doesn't use Betadine to sterilize the skin because Iodine is a cell poison.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

superk1216

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2011, 01:01:43 AM »
"I recently was told by him that he doesn't use Betadine to sterilize the skin because Iodine is a cell poison."

Hi Sarah,

I recently read a post on this site recommending Betadine to sterilize rollers and skin before rolling, so I purchased some. I plan to use the ethyl alcohol you recommend for post rolling sterilization. Do you agree with what the doctor said about Betadine being a cell poison? Should I not use it on my face or roller or neither? Thanks!

SarahVaughter

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2011, 04:56:16 PM »
Dr. Fernandez is just being extremely cautious. There is no evidence to suggest that remnants of iodine on the skin impair the collagen regeneration process - on the contrary, many practitioners use it in a clinical setting and they publish papers with long-term results, they have impressive before-and-after pictures on their sites etc. It's just that Dr. Fernandez prefers alcohol because it evaporates before rolling. He doesn't like the idea of any chemicals being rolled into the skin, however minute amounts, because it is unknown how they will influence the collagen regeneration process.

I think Betadine is perfectly fine to use, I just mentioned what Dr. Fernandez emailed me about his cautious attitude to anything that can leave traces on the skin before rolling.

The dermaroller should be cleaned with an appropriate alcohol solution as described in our instructions, or Chloramine-T. Betadine would make a mess and tincture of Iodine (Iodine in alcohol) would perhaps affect the needles.

About the "cell poison": Please realize that Oxygen also is a cell poison, and that breathing pure Oxygen for more than a few hours causes permanent brain damage. I mean to say that this word was used in a very scientific sense of the word, so don't think it will somehow "poison" your skin. Dr. Fernandez only postulated that there was a non-zero chance that the collagen regeneration process would have a less-than-100% optimal course, if he would roll in elemental Iodine into open skin. That's all.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

superk1216

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Does the Safetox work? (opinion)
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 11:46:28 AM »
Thank you for your quick and thorough response!