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Author Topic: DermaJet for Acne Scarring  (Read 8236 times)

stephanie

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DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« on: June 18, 2013, 01:14:07 PM »
Hi Sarah, I ordered a DermaJet and I am anxiously awaiting it's arrival!

I am going to be using it on my face for acne scarring.  I just have a few questions.

1. My scars are mostly small "pinprick" type scars.  I have read that single needling in the most effective for scars of this tyep, but the fact is that I just can't realistically needle them all, mainly because I can't see all of them at the angle that I'd need to look at myself when needling.  This is why I got the DermaJet.  For the scars that I can single needle, should I do so instead of using the DJ, or would the DJ be as effective since it's an up and down motion?  Or should I single needle before using DJ?

2. I imagine that the DJ is going to give me a more thorough treatment compared to when I roll myself?  Do I still start by using it on a 1.5mm setting, or is that too deep to start on the face (cheek area)?

Thank you very much for your help.     

Perma-Youth Retinoid

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 01:39:16 AM »
Hi Stephanie. I have pretty much the same issue as you have. Many small acne scars but spread out all over the face, front neck and back neck. I have recently had most of them filled up with Restylane so they are not as prominent as before.

Just as you did I placed an order for the DermaJet and all necessary creams, except tretinoin because I alredy got the 0.05% strenght 30g tubes prescribed for me here in Sweden. I have used the Aberela (tretinoin) for several months now with good results, gradually accustomizing my skin to this substance.

I am 20 years old and have a sensitive acne prone skin type and the 'typically' Scandinavian light skin sensitive to UV-rays. I always try to stay out of the sun and regularly use sunscreen with SPF 50 during the days. The Roaccutan (Accutane - isotretinoin) treatment I had 4 years ago has probably contributed to this but I don't regret it because now my skin is almost free from acne and I am so thankful to my dermatologist. Some side-effects still persist like dry skin and mucous but that's affordable.

I have had fraxel-laser performed three times a year ago, probably low strength setting, and my skin at least felt like it had gotten better texture but I decided not to continue doing this treatments due to the high cost, far distance to travel to clinic and risk of thermal damage. Another clinic offered me a deeper fraxel treatment including narcosis (unlike last clinic and it hurts like hell!) performed by a surgeon for 28000 SEK, I turned down the offer but was very tempted to proceed.


I found this very informative webpage and decided to go with the newly introduced DermaJet instead which stamps the skin in contradistinction to the dermarollers. The dermastamps didn't seem like an option since I have so many scars spread out that the automatic machine seemed like a better choice.


To answer one of your questions Stephanie; no, Sarah Vaughter wrote, somewhere on this forum, that you should start using 0.5 mm setting because of the force provided by the DermaJet which makes the needles really penetrate to this depth. This lower setting is also recommended to let you know how your skin reacts to this kind of treatment.

Since I have never tried any of these techniques before, besides fraxel-laser which also makes these holes in the skin, I am going to use 0.5 mm setting on a small path to begin with before doing my whole face, front and back neck. Should I perform a path-test with 0.1 or 1.5 mm also? I am of course planning to use these settings as well if my skin allows it.

A friend of mine who is a nurse is going to operate the DermaJet for me which hopefully will make the result more uniformly. Maybe we should draw lines in the areas that are going to be treated to make sure we cover the entire area evenly? I have not found any intructions on how the DermaJet should be operated; the dermaroller is supposed to be rolled over the same area several times in different directions or something but how about the DermaJet?


I have another question regarding the pretreatment for DermaJet procedure; is it only tretinoin and ascorbic acid that are recommended? What about Infadolan, copperpeptides and alpha hydroxy acid? I also have Chiroxy (presurgical) and Auriderm XO (antiredness) which I am planning to use.

Is the skin also supposed to be sterilized prior to DermaJet procedure?

I am currently on both lymecycline (600 mg/day) and erythromycin (1000 mg/day) to treat my acne which is almost gone but I suppose this is also going to somewhat prevent bacterial infection if I get contaminated during the DermaJet procedure.


I am really thankful for any informative input for my questions and I hope I answered yours Stephanie!

Perma-Youth Retinoid

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 01:47:37 AM »
I forgot to add. From what I have been told you should not be on any anti-inflammatory drugs like paracetamol or ibuprofen or Omega-3 oils during the procedure, at least this was the practice when I did my Restylane injections because this contributes to more bleeding, the blood gets thinner or doesn't coagulate as fast as it is supposed to. The nurse said it didn't matter that much I guess as she continued the process but it should be considered.

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 07:44:23 AM »
Operating instructions for the DermaJet have been available for about a week in our dermaneedling instructions. There is a chapter for the DermaJet.

And the DermaJet's technical instructions are here:

http://owndoc.com/pdf/DermaJet-Manual.pdf
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:28:48 PM by SarahVaughter »
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 04:43:37 PM »
To Stephanie: As we say in our dermarolling instructions, miconeedling is effective for icepick acne scars and other type of acne or other scars but it is almost never effective for enlarged pores and very few of our customers reported improvement of their enlarged pores. I am not completely sure what you mean by "pinprick scars" and whether you in fact mean enlarged pores.
 
You should first try to single needle just a few of the pinprick scars to see how they react to needling.
 
The same goes for the DermaJet. First try it on a small area of your face.
 
Please do not start with long needles when you use a DermaJet. The DermaJet pushes the needles into the skin with quite some force due to its power so the needles really penetrate as deep as they can go. Initially, adjust the needle length for 0.5 mm and later, when you know how much the area bleeds and how painful it is, you can go for the 1 mm size. This advice concerns all areas. Start with the 0.5 mm. 
 
Also, always start with the slowest speed. The speed of the DermaJet can be adjusted.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:27:32 PM by SarahVaughter »
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2013, 05:29:46 PM »
To PermaYouth:
 
>Many small acne scars but spread out all over the face, front neck and back neck. I have *recently had most of them filled up with Restylane so they are not as prominent as before.

 
 
In all these areas, the DermaJet is suitable and could help a lot with scars, however be careful on the front of the neck because the skin is quite thin so adjust the length accordingly.
 
 
>Another clinic offered me a deeper fraxel treatment including narcosis (unlike last clinic and it *hurts like hell!) performed by a surgeon for 28000 SEK
 
 
 
It hurts because it basically vaporizes small columns of skin. Those reading our forum know that I have never crusaded against lasers for skin treatments but I have just tried to explain that laser is not some kind of magic performing light. Laser merely heats up the skin because the components of the skin absorb the light and that heats them up. It can be heated just a little or so much that it cuts it. It cuts steel as well.
 
 
>I am going to use 0.5 mm setting on a small path to begin with before doing my whole face, *front and back neck.

 
 
This is a very good idea.
 
 
>Should I perform a path-test with 0.1 or 1.5 mm also?
 
 
 
You mean 1 mm or 1.5 mm?
 
Definitely yes.
 
 
 
>What about Infadolan,
 
 

Infadolan is not intended for pre-treatment but for post-treatment for protection and moisturizing of the treated skin.
 
 
 
>Is the skin also supposed to be sterilized prior to DermaJet procedure?
 
 
The skin should be disinfected prior to treatment and the needle cartridge must be cleaned and disinfected after the treatment (removing skin debris from the needles and disinfecting the needles after the treatment is especially important). Do not treat extensive areas in one go. Treat one area. When it has healed, treat the other.
 
Yes, if possible avoid blood thinners and strong anti-inflammatories prior to, and at least a few hours after the procedure.
 
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Perma-Youth Retinoid

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 10:21:43 AM »
To SarahVaughter:
Thanks for your reply! I read all of the instructions but I should have read them again because some of my questions were alredy answered in the "dermarolling instructions". I am sorry for this, but thank you for taking your time answering them!

Today I recieved the DermaJet, it came separately and my Infadolan, copper peptide + Hyaluronic acid serum, copper peptide mask, vitamin C, sterilizing agent came a week ago so I already started preparing my skin with vitamin C and CP-HA serum. My skin has been prepared for months with retinoic acid 0.05% once every second day.

Just minutes ago I ran the DermaJet device on my skin. I chose the 0.2 mm needle length on a small patch on my chest and my left shoulder where I have acne scars. On my chest the scar is bulging a bit inwards and on my shoulder the scar was bulging outwards. The speed was set at the lowest possible. The "dermarolling instructions" stated it would be 2 punches/second but I could only get it down to 3 punches/second. When the button was pressed once - I heard 3 hammering noises just as the provided paper manual says.
Quote
The speed increments are 2, 5, 10
and 15 punches/second.

I think the 0.2 mm was a good option because some bleeding actually occurred. Infadolan is now applied to the treated areas and soon I will apply the copper peptide mask or should I go with the serum instead this time since the needling depth was only 0.2 mm?

The device was really easy to maneuver and felt ergonomic in my hand. I did 3 punches on one spot (lowest possible), moved the device to a spot nearby (a little bit of overlapping) and repeated this procedure. Once one spot was done it immediately turned red so it made it easy to see where I should put the needles for next hit.

I should also point out that although my skin is thin and sensitive on my chest test patch, it did not hurt much at all! For this test session I did not use any numbing creams although I will use it next time when I am doing my face, front and back neck. Wow!

Now I will sterilize the needles using the Chloramine-T i guess? It says alcohol is sufficient in the "dermarolling instructions".

Quote
In all these areas, the DermaJet is suitable and could help a lot with scars, however be careful on the front of the neck because the skin is quite thin so adjust the length accordingly.
Notes taken. I remember the front neck was extremly sensitive and hurts the most when doing the lasers. I will be extra careful when using this device on this area.
 
 
Quote
It hurts because it basically vaporizes small columns of skin. Those reading our forum know that I have never crusaded against lasers for skin treatments but I have just tried to explain that laser is not some kind of magic performing light. Laser merely heats up the skin because the components of the skin absorb the light and that heats them up. It can be heated just a little or so much that it cuts it. It cuts steel as well.
I agree. I think most of the pain was due to the heat produced. I even got a cold wind blower to use on my skin while doing the fraxel which helped.
 
 
Quote
You mean 1 mm or 1.5 mm?
 
Definitely yes.
Yes I meant those sizes, I misstyped. Since some bleeding occured (using 0.2 mm) even on my shoulder where the skin is a bit thicker, does this still mean it's okay to try the deeper settings? Maybe I should point out that I am a male.
 

Quote
Infadolan is not intended for pre-treatment but for post-treatment for protection and moisturizing of the treated skin.
Okay. I thought the skin would maybe benefit from absorbing vitamin A + D prior to DermaJeting, just like vitamin C? I read that some other people used it around their eyes and on their lips and I also think it is excellent for this since I have very dry lips.
 
 
Quote
The skin should be disinfected prior to treatment and the needle cartridge must be cleaned and disinfected after the treatment (removing skin debris from the needles and disinfecting the needles after the treatment is especially important). Do not treat extensive areas in one go. Treat one area. When it has healed, treat the other.
  OK. I disinfected my skin prior to DermaJeting with 85% ethanol/isopropanol. The two patches I ran today was 5x5 cm.

Quote
Yes, if possible avoid blood thinners and strong anti-inflammatories prior to, and at least a few hours after the procedure.
Done  ;)


I also want to say - thank you again for this very informative site!

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 12:58:52 PM »
I will answerthe rest later, but because I wanted to warn you:

1. Do not put the DermaJet on your skin, hold it and let it punch three times. As our new DermaJet chapter says, keep it moving at all times.

2. Do not use Chloramine-T to sterilize the DermaJet needle cartridges. As our new DermaJet chapter says, use alcohol.

As for 2 vs 3 Hz: It was a mistake by the vendor. The minium speed is indeed 3 Hz.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Perma-Youth Retinoid

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 02:18:03 PM »
Thanks for your fast response.
Quote
I will answerthe rest later, but because I wanted to warn you:

1. Do not put the DermaJet on your skin, hold it and let it punch three times. As our new DermaJet chapter says, keep it moving at all times.
Ok. I found it difficult to move the device while it operated. The skin is sticky when it is wiped off with alcohol. How can I prevent this?

Quote
2. Do not use Chloramine-T to sterilize the DermaJet needle cartridges. As our new DermaJet chapter says, use alcohol.
I put the cartridge in Chloramine-T and it has been there in like 3 hours. I will now change to alcohol immediately. Will it now be damaged? The glue of the dermarollers holding the needles would be dissolved when using alcohol so I assumed it was the same for the DermaJet-cartridges.
Quote
As for 2 vs 3 Hz: It was a mistake by the vendor. The minium speed is indeed 3 Hz.
Ok. If you look at the wheel of the DermaJet where you adjust the frequency it says "2" as lowest. All numbers on the wheel are: 0 2 5 10 15 Hz. It's not a big deal for me but it's worth mentioning if anyone else get confused.

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 04:55:43 PM »
How hard are you pushing? What if you just move the device smoothly without pressing down too hard? You could wet the skin with water, if that helps.

I just added more pages with very useful info to the DermaJet chapter:

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

Just wash the Chloramine-T off. Read the DermaJet chapter for details. You can read there how much you should move over the skin etc.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 04:56:39 PM by SarahVaughter »
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 06:06:18 PM »
I think the 0.2 mm was a good option because some bleeding actually occurred. Infadolan is now applied to the treated areas and soon I will apply the copper peptide mask or should I go with the serum instead this time since the needling depth was only 0.2 mm?


Apply Infadolan.
 

You mean 1 mm or 1.5 mm? Yes I meant those sizes, I misstyped. Since some bleeding occured (using 0.2 mm) even on my shoulder where the skin is a bit thicker, does this still mean it's okay to try the deeper settings? Maybe I should point out that I am a male.

 

Try the 0.5 mm and from there you can go to the 1 mm (but not on the front of you neck).
 
The epidermis has no blood supply but the epidermis is only about 0.1-0.3 mm thick (depending where on the body it resides). The dermis below has capillaries and they are quite dense even in the upper dermis but the deeper you go the thicker the capillaries are.
 
 
 
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Perma-Youth Retinoid

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 10:48:17 AM »
How hard are you pushing? What if you just move the devlthly without pressing down too hard? You could wet the skin with water, if that helps.

I just added more pages with very useful info to the DermaJet chapter:

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

Just wash the Chloramine-T off. Read the DermaJet chapter for details. You can read there how much you should move over the skin etc.
I am back again after some turbolent times in my life.

The water was really helpful when the skin got sticky after desinfection with alcohol
 It took some practice but now I got the hang of it. The device is easy to operate and lightweight. Even at larger areas I think it is very suitable. Just adjust the frequency to 5 instead of 3.

My entire chest and upper back has been run with 0.2 mm depth and the actual scars were targeted with 0.5 mm or 1.0 mm depending on location. All treated areas have been healed nicely. This early in treatment progress I have not seen any improvement.

The pain is also really non existing! Wow I thought I would have to use numbing creams and painkillers. You can feel the needles really penetrating the skin with force but it doesn't hurt. As you stated the machine is powerful. Just make sure you stretch out the skin with one of your free hands in the area supposed to be treated.

I have a question about getting rid of 'dark spots' or pigmented skin. It looks dirty. I have used Retin-A for months on these areas but it doesn't seem to get any better. That is why I did needle my entire chest and upper back with 0.2 mm hoping this will refresh the skin. Any ideas? I'm just 20 years old. I should post some pictures.

Another tip for you DermaJet users out there is to immediately rinse off your cartridges from blood with water. I just put it into the red-transparent containers with alcohol but the blood does not dissolve that way, leaving the needles with small blood spots hard to get rid off. I brushed it off gently with a toothbrush but it was not easy.

Today I will place an order for more needle-cartridges and some tubes Infadolan. I am not sure about the Cu-peptide mask since I discovered it was actually a cloth inside and not only cream. Is the serum bottle much lower concentration of copper peptides in comparison to the mask?

Thanks again for these great products and they will be a part of my skin routine for many years to come.

SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 11:09:44 AM »
Thank you for posting your experience.
 
"Dirty" looking skin is usually unevenly distributed melanin pigment (some areas of skin have excessive levels of melanin). Melanin pigment is normally present in the skin and it is our natural UV filter. The darker the skin the more melanin it contains. The skin produces more melanin upon sun exposure. In certain individuals prone to hyerpigmentation, the skin unfortunately produces melanin as a reaction to skin injury, irritation, or other triggers. It seems the triggers can even be hormonal – such as chloasma in pregnancy.
 
Microneedling will partially renew the skin and if you are lucky, the "new skin" will have more even distribution of melanin but it is not always the case.
 
What can also help are Tyrosinase inhibitors such as hydroquinone. They inhibit the enzyme that converts tyrosine to melanin. They do not remove existing melanin, they only help preventing formation of excessive melanin in the future so you have to use them long term.
 
Use a 0.2 mm size to enhance the penetration of hydroquinone (we do not sell hydroquinone). Please read the leaflet that comes with the hydroquinone because it can have side effects.
 
The serum has the same concentration as the mask.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

Perma-Youth Retinoid

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 05:43:20 PM »
Thank you Sarah for the information. I will look into this.

Today I used the DermaJet on my cheeks, chin and parts of my front neck. I used the 0.5 mm setting except on my front neck where I used the 0.2 mm setting. The water helps if the skin turns sticky. It is difficult to operate on myself but it somehow works.

Another thing I noticed today was that the top end of the needle cartridge had oxidized. Not that much of a deal apart from the fact that small amounts of rust coated parts of the plastics. First I thought it was blood from last session but I cleaned it thoroughly last time. I easily just washed off the rust and proceeded. Have I mistreated the needle cartridge? I guess you do not want to 'inject' this oxidized metal if it ends up on the needles. Maybe I'm just silly as it was easy to just wash it off this time but a bit harder to get out of the red part of the needle container where the metal meets the plastic.

I get an error message when I try to upload a picture. Anyway this maybe doesn't belong here. I don't want to complain. Just inform you.

Another session seems to have worked out fine.


SarahVaughter

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Re: DermaJet for Acne Scarring
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2013, 08:16:23 AM »
Have you used Chloramine-T to sterilize the cartridge?

If yes, then we'll stop recommending using it again for DermaJet needle cartridges and we'll send you a replacement.

Please email me the pictures.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:16:46 AM by SarahVaughter »
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid