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Author Topic: Concerns and questions regarding dermarolling..  (Read 5500 times)

alt1523

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Concerns and questions regarding dermarolling..
« on: November 24, 2011, 06:56:48 PM »
Hi Sarah,

I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind answering them. I have stretchmarks from a combination of weight gain and weight lifting so I'm very interested in trying out Dermarolling/Needling

1. How safe are these procedures exactly? Like risk of infection and whatnot?

2. Are >1mm needles really necessary? Isn't there a reason why these are usually only available to licensed professionals? Some people say they're too dangerous and you should limit yourself to 0.25mm or 0.5mm rollers

3. Could you please click on [link removed by admin] and scroll down to Dannyengland first comment and tell me what you think about it?

4. Does it matter if you roll skin that isn't affected by stretchmarks? On some places I have loads and on other places I have less, but I cannot afford to buy a "wide" and "narrow roller"

and last but not least

4. My stretchmarks are fairly new, still red and pink. Is there any difference in the healing process compared to already faded stretchmarks? Will the red/pink marks fade more quickly with dermarolling?

I would be really grateful if you could answer my questions.

SarahVaughter

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Concerns and questions regarding dermarolling..
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 05:47:25 PM »
I will start with the comment coming from another website that you wanted me to react to. To make thing clear for everybody, I will paste here the comment so that everybody understands what I react to:

"I met with the environ lady a while ago and she explained the reasons behind using it. The needle size on the home versions are 0.2 which teeny and you won't even feel a thing whilst using it. It does work. The Tiny minute punctures made cause rapid new dermal Matrix to be made and also allows your creams , serums to be properly absorbed much deeper. I've been using one for years now."

There is not much to say about it except that I do not agree with the statement "you will not even feel a thing when rolling with a 0.2 mm roller". You will definitely feel using a 0.2 mm dermaroller, it can be perceived slightly painful (at least in the beginning before the skin gets used to it) and later you may perceive it as "massage". I would not call it painful but you will definitely feel it.

A 0.2 mm dermroller speeds up the turnover of the skin and it can improve skin conditions that are in the upper skin layer - epidermis - such as certain kinds of pigmentations, overall skin texture etc.  It does not reach the deeper layer - the dermis and longer needles are needed to trigger collagen in the dermis. If it was true that a 0.2 mm dermaroller triggers dermal collagen, you would never need longer needles, regardless how deep in the skin the problem is. I have never heard about a clinic offering a professional dermarolling session for acne scars or stretch marks with a 0.2 mm dermaroller. In fact some of them even use needles that are 3 mm long.

"The only problem is when silly people buy online larger versions even 1mm, 1.5 or I've even heard of a lady using a 2mm every day . She ripped her face to shreds tore all her collagen and elastin fibres and scarred heavily and bled and got infected. This level is only used by a derm in a proper clean environment or in surgery for extreme acne or scarring or stretch marks . The only safe way for us at home is the teeny needle and it will far surpass our needs."

I certainly agree that it is totally crazy to roll every day with a 2 mm dermaroller. I have been always recommending keeping enough time between rollings with long needles. I have written a forum posting called "Warning about rolling frequency". The frequency of rolling we have in our instructions is conservative and safe:

- 0.2 or 0.25 mm long needles can be used every second day on the same skin area.

- 0.5 mm long needles can be used once or twice a week on the same skin area.

- 1 mm can be used every two weeks on the same skin area.

- 1.5 mm can only be used once every three to four weeks on the same skin area.

- 2.0 mm can only be used once every five weeks on the same skin area, and only if you have the knowledge to judge which part of the skin is thick enough to safely use this needle length.

These are general, conservative guidelines. Males generally have thicker skin and can roll a bit more frequently. Some parts of the body such as the back and buttocks have thicker skin than other areas, and there you can shorten the interval somewhat.


In our webshop, the description of the 2 mm dermarollers says:

If you are a beginner in dermarolling and you plan to use it on your face, please buy a dermaroller with shorter needles such as 1.5 mm.

A 2 mm needle length is not recommended for beginners but for those already proficient with dermarolling.


Concerning dermarolling at home with dermarollers longer than 0.5 mm: It is safe, provided you disinfect the skin before you roll and clean and disinfect the dermaroller after you roll. Not a single customer wrote us he/she got an infection, neither will you read about such cases often online, while in fact tens of thousands of people in the world are home rolling. We alone sell over a thousand rollers a month.

Obviously, one should not do stupid things like storing ones dermaroller in an open box next to a toilet, etc.

There are many websites selling dermarollers that do not even explain their customers that they have to disinfect. We publish a dozen pages of instructions that include how and with what to disinfect.

1 mm or longer needles are really necessary when you have a problem that affects both the epidermis and dermis. A 0.5 mm dermaroller penetrates about 0.3 mm into the skin and reaches the top of the dermis (depending where you roll because skin thickness is not the same all over the body) and may improve shallow acne scars but mostly you need longer needles. Stretch marks are in the epidermis and the dermis. They usually reach reticular dermis which is the deepest part of the dermis.

No, it doesn't matter if you roll skin that is unaffected by stretch marks.

The redness of new stretch marks is caused by inflammation and diluted blood vessels. The stretch mark is still "active". What you should do is to roll your stretch marks and immediately apply Tretinoin (A-Ret cream, we sell it). There are studies showing that Tretinoin improved fresh stretch marks:

Results

After 2 months, patients treated with tretinoin had significant improvement in severity scores of stretch marks compared with patients who received vehicle (P<.05). After 6 months, eight (80%) of the 10 tretinointreated patients had definite or marked improvement compared with one (8%) of the 12 vehicle-treated patients (P=.002). Targeted stretch marks in patients treated with tretinoin had a decrease in mean length and width of 14% and 8%, respectively, compared with an increase of 10% (P<.001) and 24% (P=.008), respectively, in patients who received vehicle. There were no significant differences in various measures of quality and quantity of dermal collagen and elastic fibers in stretch marks when tretinoin and vehicle treatments were compared.



Conclusions


Topical application of tretinoin significantly improves the clinical appearance of early, active stretch marks. The processes that are responsible for the clinical improvement remain unknown.

Dermarolling itself improves stretch marks and Tretinoin will hopefully cause an additional improvement. Dermarolling will also very much enhance the penetration of Tretinoin into the stretch marks and enables tretinoin to get deep into the dermis where it is needed.

I do not recommend applying Tretinoin right after dermarolling because it is acidic and it will sting but in case of stubborn scars or stretch marks (even for old white ones) I do recommend it and you will have to bear some stinging. Note how I do not specifically discourage its use on open skin, because contrary to what is rumored online, there is no way you can "poison yourself with vit. A" like that.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

alt1523

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Concerns and questions regarding dermarolling..
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 08:32:37 PM »
Wow thanks for the amazingly informative reply, Sarah! Really takes a lot of worries about Dermarolling away.

A couple of other things: How long should I wait (after rolling) before applying the Tretinoin? And oh yeah, Tretinoin is only available on a doctor's prescription where I live, so I guess that would make it illegal for me to import it from your store. Well, at least I'll try getting it from my doctor first. Would you recommend starting with Tretinoin first and start Dermarolling if it yields no significant results, or start Dermarolling right away (in combination)? Because apparently, now is the best time to fight them while they're still red.

But the Dermarollers you sell are in fact quite cheap compared to the stuff they sell in The Netherlands, so at least I might get one from your store.

And that's about it I guess. Thanks again for the very in-depth reply, awesome! :D

Edit: Whoops in my first edit I actually assumed your company was located in the United States, but it's actually located in Europe! Since I'm located in The Netherlands you can imagine how happy I am to be wrong! ;)

SarahVaughter

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Concerns and questions regarding dermarolling..
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 10:44:29 AM »
I forgot to answer your question on whether dermarolling can speed up the fading of red (active) stretch marks. Dermarolling can speed up the fading of skin pigmentations. In most cases, skin pigmentation is caused by melanin (skin pigment). This is not the case with red stretch marks. The redness is caused by inflammation and dilated blood vessels. When the stretch mark matures it becomes white and has a very poor blood supply.

  The reason for using a dermaroller on fresh stretch marks is not really to speed up the fading, but it is an attempt to affect the process of maturation of still active/red stretch marks - to shrink their width and length.

  You should apply Tretinoin right after you finish rolling. Yes, start dermarolling and Tretinoin now.

  Unfortunately, we have problems importing Tretinoin so we have to drop-ship it to our customers directly from India but we are working on a solution that will hopefully work by the end of this year, so we can ship it from within the EU.  For the time being, if you have a way to get it from your doctor, it will be better for you. Tretinoin passes without any problems to the United States but some countries in Europe do not allow it and it may be confiscated by customs.
My comments should not be considered medical advice.

The dermaneedling part of our site is http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/

Our digital dermaneedling device ($170 for home users and clinics): http://derminator.com/

Derminator videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/owndoc/videos?flow=grid

alt1523

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Concerns and questions regarding dermarolling..
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 02:20:34 PM »
Thanks again Sarah, that makes sense. I also found your Dermarolling guide which answered pretty much everything. A very good read!

I'll try to acquire some Tretinoin as soon as possible and order the supplies I need. Dermarolling, when done with care seems easy enough. Not giving it a try would be a shame!