Sarah Vaughter answers questions about OwnDoc products

Forums => Dermarolling / Microneedling => Topic started by: SarahVaughter on March 14, 2010, 05:13:18 PM

Title: Chemical peels in between facial dermarolling?
Post by: SarahVaughter on March 14, 2010, 05:13:18 PM
> I just ordered the derma roller 1.5 kit.  Can you do chemical peels
> between treatments on the face?  Also, I would like to use the derma
> roller on my stomach and outer thighs for stretch marks and lose skin
> after having a baby.  I read your review and that a longer needle may
> be needed for those areas, but I did not see that you sell a 2.0mm kit.

I would advise you to do the chemical peels before dermarolling. If you are prone to acne or clogged pores, then Beta Hydroxy acids such as Salicylic acid are better since they get deeper into the pores than Alpha Hydroxy peels. Salicylic acid is fat-soluble and it is a mild antiseptic. It is effective in penetrating sebaceous pores and keeps them unclogged.


When the skin has fully recovered from a peel, you can start with dermarolling.

How to know that you skin has fully healed?  When it is still red, tender, dry or flakey then it has not.
Before doing dermaneedling after a peel, your skin should be 100% back to its natural state how it was before you got the peel.
How long that is, is totally individual and depends on the type of peel performed.


When the skin has fully recovered from dermaneedling, you can do a peel.

How to know that you skin has fully healed?  When it is still red, tender, dry or flakey then it has not.
Before getting a peel after dermaneedling, your skin should be 100% back to its natural state how it was before you did the dermaneedling.
How long that is, is totally individual and depends on the needle length and how much you needled.

I do not advocate using  frequently deeper acid peels or any other relatively aggressive treatments in between rolling with long needles. The more is not always the better and the skin should be allowed to regenerate and remodel in between various treatments.

Classification of chemical peels:

Exfoliation - can be used daily

-AHA 5-10%

Very superficial peels
-Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA) - glycolic acid and lactic acid up to 50%
-Beta-hydroxy acid - (BHA) - salicylic acid (excellent for acne prone skin since it cleans pores)
-Trichloroacetic acid (TCA) up to 10%

Superficial peels - reach the epidermis - usually performed every 4-6 weeks

-TCA up to 30%
-AHA - up to 70% (left from 2 to 20 min)
-Jessner’s solution – (contains 14% resorcinol, 14% salicylic acid, 14% lactic acid and ethanol)

Medium depth peels - reach the papillary dermis - usually performed once in 6-12 months

-TCA 30% to 40%
-Glycolic acid 70% + 35% TCA
-Jessner’s solution + 35% TCA
-Glycolic acid 70%

Deep peels - reach the reticular dermis - Can be performed once every few years or once in a lifetime

-TCA 50% or more

The depth of penetration depends on many variables:

-The concentration of the peel
-The pH of the peel
-Thickness of the skin
-How many layers of the peel are applied
-How long it stays on               

It is very difficult to give general advice concerning the needle length for skin conditions due to the fact that the skin thickness varies depending where on the body it is. The thinnest skin is on the upper eyelids and the thickest is on the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet.

When people want to roll against lost elasticity of their neck, they should not use 2 mm needles because the skin of the neck is quite thin. On the other hand the skin on the back or buttocks for example is rather thick and 2 mm needles may be appropriate to address stretch marks in that area.

The proper answer to the question how long the needles should be to address loose skin is: They should be able to reach the dermis. 1.5 mm needles are often totally sufficient - but it depends how thick and tough your skin is. If you never get any pinpoint bleeding (occasional pinpoint bleeding is a sign that you reached the dermis), you could try 2 mm needles. But even just reaching the very upper dermis (no pinpoint bleeding) is enough to trigger new collagen production. If your skin turns red after rolling, you triggered the desirable processes.

We will have 2 mm rollers for sale in just a couple of days from now. We'll announce it on the forum.

2 mm long needles might be too painful for you to roll and not even necessary so if you are a dermarolling "beginner" then 1.5 mm long needles are better to start with. A dermaroller will eventually get blunt and has to be replaced anyway so you can buy a 2 mm dermaroller the next time.

I believe that dry brushing the area, accompanied by the external application of vit. C as well as massaging it with a mixture of fine salt with oil is beneficial to prepare the skin for dermarolling. In combination with a healthy diet, of course.

You could also target individual stretchmarks with our single needle to crush the scar tissue. It is laborious. Nevertheless, you can needle just a couple of stretch marks every day (even while watching TV). Do not forget to disinfect both needle and skin beforehand.

Buying a 0.2 roller for skin care product penetration enhancement is a very good idea as well and such a roller can be used up to 4 times a week.

Apply a tightening cream, stretch mark cream (or the skin care product of your choice) onto the area and roll it in.

It is difficult to find time for exercises when you have a baby but toning your muscles will usually make any skin problem look better.
Title: Chemical peels in between facial dermarolling?
Post by: emily100 on May 25, 2010, 10:03:04 PM
Hi! I just got a medium TCA chemical peel at the doctor's office one week ago.  Since this is significant trauma to the face, when would you recommend I restart my dermarolling sessions?  I have a .25, a .5 and a 1.5 roller. I am also wanting to buy the copper peptide masks.  Is there a timeframe I should wait to apply certain products or using certain devices right after the chemical peel...that you know of?  Thank you!!
Title: Chemical peels in between facial dermarolling?
Post by: SarahVaughter on May 29, 2010, 04:18:51 PM
There aren't many ways to rejuvenate or remodel skin. One of the best methods is to cause mild skin damage. Our body will renew the skin by fixing that damage.

  That is one of the principles of dermarolling. Only tiny fractions of the skin are damaged by dermarolling, that's why it heals so quickly.


  Mild skin damage is also a principle behind chemical peels. It destroys/removes the outermost top layer of skin.


  The same with laser rejuvenation.  Lasers either remove the outermost topskin layer or they damage fractions of skin.


  As you can see, this triggered skin regeneration is what makes the skin renew itself. The result of this regeneration should be better looking skin.


  Give your skin plenty of time to regenerate.


  I think it would be wise to avoid any rollers for at least 3 weeks and 1.5 mm for at least 5-6 weeks.


  Avoid dry brushing or rough exfoliation for some time.


  Basically leave your skin alone. Keep it clean and moist.


  The most important part is to protect your skin against the sun since skin's protective means are compromised after TCA or other rejuvenating methods.
Title: Chemical peels in between facial dermarolling?
Post by: emily100 on May 30, 2010, 07:59:01 PM
Thank you so much!! Well, it's 10 days after my peel and I don't feel like much was accomplished. Seems like MAYBE I could see results if I did several spaced apart but who has the time?!!  The peeling was horrible.  Is it safe to assume that since I didn't really see much of an overall result from a medium TCA peel, that to look for any huge results from dermarolling is just kinda wishful thinking?  If a peel didn't do all that much from what I can tell, can DR be any different, in your opinion? Maybe I just have non-responsive skin???  Thanks, Sarah!
Title: Chemical peels in between facial dermarolling?
Post by: SarahVaughter on June 03, 2010, 12:33:32 PM
It depends on whether your expectations are realistic..


  The quality and texture of our skin is mainly in our genes.  Neither a dermaroller, TCA, laser nor anything else currently used can change genetic predisposition. If you tend to have large pores and you expect the roller to change your skin into a peachy smoothness pore-less velvet complexion, it is unrealistic. Very few people have such a complexion anyway - it is usually achieved by Photoshop :-)

  Acne prone skin can usually be improved by the anti-androgens in oral contraception. Acne scars are very difficult to improve, making it a long term project with limited results. There is currently no method to completely remove acne scars, scars or stretch marks. Unfortunately you have to accept the fact that they can be improved but not removed.


  Neither it is realistic to expect that a roller or TCA will make you look 10 years younger, stop aging or completely remove various skin problems.


  In some cases, improvement can be very significant - such as in certain cases of seriously sun damaged skin where the before-and-after is really impressive.


  Rolling is a great way to reverse sun damage, improve skin texture, improve or prevent wrinkles and mild skin laxity, improve scars and stretch marks, speed up skin turnover and so on. But one has to keep in mind that this improvement will be to a certain extent only and patience and perseverance are key points.


  And yes: The results of dermarolling are highly individual. We have customers that are extremely happy with their results and also those who roll and roll and do not achieve any significant improvement.